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3 – Wyrd Sisters

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Episode 3 of Unseen Academicals, examining the second book in the Witches Series, Wyrd Sisters (1988), and using it to explore theories of humour, the power of words, Shakespeare, the history of Macbeth, evolving depictions of witches, broomsticks, Black Aliss, vegetarian ghosts, and more!

The sound on this on is pretty rough. As Alice and I have alluded to on the previous episodes, recording this one was a bit of an ordeal and I essentially had to stitch it together, Igor style, from three seperate back-up recoridngs that all got weirdly compressed. We're pretty down on this one too, so heads up about that.

Referenced transcripts: independentresearcher.academia.edu/JoshuaBulleid/Podcasts  

Contact: unseenacademicalspod@gmail.com 

Alice's other podcast, Of the Devil's Party: https://ofthedevilsparty.sounder.fm/ 

Support: patreon.com/doctorprometheuspod


 

I so I'm Josh and I'm Alice and were theunseen academicals, and this episode we're going to be talking o onethousand nine hundred and eighty eight weird sisters, the second book in thewitches series and the six disk world book overall in which growingweatherwax and a fellow which is nanny organ Megara, Gally, MC theth, harderthan anyone has ever make Beth before or since in an attempt to save the diskworlds, witches from Shakespeare and prejudices and restore the rightfulorder to the Kingdom of Lanka, we're going to be using the book to exploretheories of humor, a pair of words, the history of Macbeth, which is Bernstadtan gars and more, but first Alice. This worked really well last time, so untilJer Betan sends me a season desist, I'm going to begin again by asking you toname two things you liked about the book, and one thing you did not thankyou said the kingdom name again: kind o O, I think I'll get LANCA. This issomething I was going to bring up later. Is it's actually the name of a Frenchwitch Hunter General? I had a question: Okay Yea, so I don't know if that's howthe audio books and stuff I've listened to pronounce it. So we all my all mypronunciations are informed by audio books but yeah. What were the twothings you like, and one thing you did not about the book. I think it's goingto be the opposite, but I eat read two things you just like, and one thing you if you want but start with the positiveall right. I really like the characterization of the witches and therelationships between them. That was fun. It was the only fun part for me,be also on a maybe the fool and finding out the falls field was like amiserable place to grow up. That was vaguely humorous. Some of the jokesabout a theater were funny. I appreciate the joke about all the worldof stage and all of us really players except those just help pop corn,because I work in a cinema and sell pop corn. I feel like I'm on the edge of Yeman it in most of the time all right things I did like the book. Okay, it drags. I felt like the plot,was fairly dull and boring the links to make Beth weren't that interesting. Itfelt like me best for people who hadn't, read, Macbeth or didn't know any better.I think. Actually, there are almost more references to hamlet other thansort of like the overall part of Macbeth, like the references in it, anda lot of the ideas are very handled. That annoyed me like pick one, I think,okay, I would go the other way I'd like o Yo, O branch out a bit more Otheah. Idon't know I do something better. I guess the fun, but if there was a funbit, was trying to pick out all the little references so the bit of the endwhere they say l. actually we do like trolls after I'm, like Oh yeah, Imention a Venice cool but yeah. Otherwise, what a drag really positivethis week. Well, as far as the two things I like, I like the broom, stickpot where she flies around the Kingdom of Lanka yeah. They put it all to sleep,a little bit disappointed that that's just sort of thrown away in the middleof the book. It's not the big ending set piece, but I do understand it'sfunction, but I just thought that actual scene and that device was prettyinteresting, pretty cool. I want to talk more about the broom sticks later.I also I like the ghost stuff as there's not too much of it, but some ofthe ideas that I like the engagement with ghosts. I don't know if we reallyget like he does vampires and Webels and everything all the books. I don'tknow if we get any other ghosts. Really I mean. Maybe we do what I'm notthinking about anything that I sort of wanted him to take that a bit further,because I thought there were more interesting ideas there in the ghoststuff than the witch stuff and the the MC bad stuff. As for what I did like,like you pretty much pretty much everything else. If I have to bespecific or if I'm forced to pick the duke and the fall, which is a twothings, but just any scenes with them, interacting really grated on me, Ididn't like those characters so yeah. It seems like you like it less than Idid, and I you going into this, that this is not one of my favoritedisquiets. In fact, I'm able did to like it because I tend to enjoy thingsthat are spoof son Mac. That's like I really like upstart crow, the show,which is also proved on Shakespeare. They just felt dull yeah. So lookingover my list at I've made, this is my one two three four five, six seventhleast favorite discoved novel, so Ju, just above the last content and anAnsen academicals firmly in the tector, the a E. I think it's like from beingobjective it s a good book. I just don't like it very much. How are youfeeling about you like this? More or less than unseen academicals of thethree we've done so far less than I'm seen, academical O is a at least myleast favorite book surfer. All we'll keep an eye on that, a De because Ifeel like there was more to think about and greater way of characters, doinginteresting, different things interacting with the world and witheach other in different and interesting ways like some of the stuff with thewitches was interesting. All the jokes you know like well what powers do wegive him and but yeah yeah, but we are rather in the O Sonrai in our responseto this, because this is one of the most well regarded but will receive aclaim books in the discord series to put in positive the bibliography forthe stuff I've read for H. This is...

...about one and a half times as much asfor equal rights, which we both like to like this and and which is a broad thatwe're going to do next there, the big ones that there's been a lot ofcritical focus about so in comparison to the neglected, equal rights. Weirdsisters is one of the most celebrated and written about discat novels. Iwould even have an article about it in Armanos, literature, General Colloquy,that was in the issue between the one I added and the one you edited so that aco Anois, the work of Metafor, which was my primer Raso from the Universityof Western Australia, will talk more about that article a bit later. Butyeah there's been a lot written about weird sisters and a lot of it is trash.I'm sure we're Gettin to specifics, but track trash out or just literally thequality of start. There's a lot of just these weird yeah, these theseundergraduate feces and just high school essays and stuff that have beenmixed in on Google. Somehow- and it's almost like, like there's all thisstuff up there and I'm thinking of someone's come along. A D is teachingthe online course about. Weird systems sell the stuff out there, but they'reall from different ears and different parts of the world and differentuniversities. So I don't know but they're all the same. They all say theexact same things. They all start out with definitions of parody and whatparody is, and then just say and conclude by saying weird sisters is aparody of Macbeth and even in some of the you know, preview publishedacademia stuff, like a lot of it. Just goes down the same path and treads thesame ground over and over again. So I actually found a really good thesis.They will talk about later that there was like a week or two of me justreading trash articles about weird sisters and getting really bogged downin it. I remember getting the messages fro in that bunk just going this outing,but yes appears to be critically adored. I couldn't find any contemporaryreviews from when it came out, which was surprisingly hard to find I'mhaving trouble finding any fur which is aboard as well, but in the two thousandand one pocket, a central, Terry, Pratchett, Andrew and Butler, who isthe leader and pioneer of prejet studies who we've discussed before hegoes through all the books and give some ratings out of five and weirdsisters gets his first five out of five rating and he calls it utterly splendid.This man is- and this led well again, there seems to be the consensus amongpeople who aren't us for context, the only other five out of five booksrating that he gives more, which is a broad small Gods Jingo, but only on rereading, when you gave it a three out of five first, which strangely is a anexperience I can relate to because coming back to that book, I thought itwas a lot better. The second time, but we'll talk about that in about threeyears. I think and carpet Jugglin. So the last of the which his novels beforewe get to the tiffany aching ones, which I don't I know that's what Imattie's favorites- she really likes it, but I don't really remember it thatwell well, have much reverence for it, but maybe it'll be good on revision.It's also the first. I think it's the first of projects on on this to beadapted into another media. There's the weird sisters, animated series whichMattie and I watched half of and then turned off in just just complete bottom,and it's not very good. The pacing is where the animations are rough and thevoice, acting especially from Magrady wether ack wo year. Two, a maincharacters is pretty rough, so not recommended. So why don't we like thisbook? It's what I want to start with, because for me you already mentionedyour favorite joke, but my favorite joke is the very first line of the book,which is the wind, howd lightning, stabbed at the earth erratically likean inefficient assassin, thunder roll back and forth across the dark rainlashed hills. The night was as black as the inside of a cat. I just felt likecheap shop to me. I like that, not being as black as the inside of a cat.I thought that was nice, but then that's my favorite joke. It's theopening one of the book, so it's all down hill from there yep and then theysay, went a way through met again next Tuesday and I was rolling my eyesviolently. I don't mind that as just a yealow jerk,but God that this is the grady weather, wet, saying, there's men's magic andwomen's magic of wird sisters. This is every article, even ones about notweird sisters open with this cot. Like look at the genius, he says nextTuesday, you like, Oh, my God, I get it yeah, it's not genius. It's just funnylike Oh you twisted a bit, makes it funny bit job. I do think that's funny,but I wish he would go deeper, but yeah. I didn't find this book funny and thatthat's not funny doesn't mean it's not good, but I wanted to know like whatabout the Macbeth. References is not doing it for me and now I know it us,and maybe it's just that, as you said, someone who s not only knows Macbeth byassociation or whatever I might get more out of this, whereas you and Ibeing so familiar with the text, having taught it and written about it andeverything. Is it just not doing it for us because we have a higher bar orsomething I have. I know you have a theory. I have some series to add onyour stereo. I think you should start right because I'm going to do. I did abit of research. I wasn't contented with just. I don't like this be want toknow why so I've read a lot of books of articlesabout theories of humor and theories of parody trying to get to the bottom ofit. My I don't know if I have, but I thought, there's an interesting stuffto explore here, or maybe it's just going to be me talking very drily forlike twenty minutes about why jokes are funny explaining jokes and what not, but there's been a lot of articleswritten about Prateth or which makes...

...sense like he's the best sellingcomedic writer of all time so axes, nor all of which are particularly in sidefull again, you sort of get this thing where they all conclude with andtherefore were sisters as a parody of Macbeth and somehow that is the lastentete of the article, not the first. So, for example, there's a two thousandthree article written humor in human theory in which dominic cheat no musicprojects work alongside Petty Word House, who, I know nothing about, butkeeps coming up a lot. So I probably should you know anything about WordHouse yeah, which essentially boils down to the fairly obvious idea thatwritten conventions can be Nucula, ed and severed along with her content.He's going, Hey, look! The writing funny as well and again yes covers, isquite a good article by Kian, harbor corn called the rhetoric of humor andthe poetics of fantasy in Discludere, which is a really good first step, butnot particularly velvet to the discussion of weird sisters. But Iwanted to point that out. If anyone is interested in one of these articlesabout humor and Taro Praches, actually a lot of the post graduate TC, not theone I the undergraduate ones. I was complaining about a second ago, butsome masters and phdrus are a little more insight for an a bit more useful.So I found a two thousand and sixteen masters thesis from Finland by VeraPolina called into textual ty as a source of humor into protrate snuffles,which bases its analysis on Buckton. Am I saying that right, yeah people dealwith like an accident a, but no some it team who's. A big bill done for an guywho's he's going to show up again when we get to which is a broad. so He seemslike he's a big deal right yeah. He is Bek. That seems silly. Like me,qualified PD, I've graduated now being loing, this Buckin Guy, who s name,definitely isn't pronounced. Why that? But I've sort of known him like in thepurprise. Now, as I'm doing this research, he keeps coming up and keepscoming up, I'm like did you invent all of it, but you just feel the bill. Donsonthing, Heah's big in the literary theory well yeah, so he provides thatno word or utterance is independent and that everything that merges from acomplex history of previous works. This is the invention of the idea ofintertexture yeah sis he linked to the deconstructed. I think he's too earlyhe's too early yeah. That is a district de constructionist guy. All right, Iplead ignorance. Yes, this is later process into the theory of intertextureby their French Belgian fenis literary critic, Julia Chris Taba in t ethousand nine hundred and sixty so she's, taking his ideas and blendingthem into the the deconstructed post, Mona stuff, so politan basis. Heranalysis on Neil A nork one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine paperintertex Raly in humor, where noak abus, that, unlike one of intertexture andreferences which test the audience for common knowledge and reactions, parody,rather aligns them with the performance in assault against some third party. Soyou're meant to be on the side of the author, making fun of the thing thatthey are parting. So I guess the humor comes there from like it's not just aclever witty joke. That's sort of this prolonged attack like if you are onboard with Patchet de Constructing Macbeth, then you're going to getsomething out of it where it seems like you, and I aren't really buying intothat premise as much maybe yeah and we'll kind of back to this but part ofit. A big thing in macbeth is his make us. We will talk about more he's,making fun of superstition and I feel like practick, doesn't get under thatenough. He doesn't unpack it enough for me, so he doesn't really get to theheart of what Macbeth is about or does, and he just sort of takes all of theplot aspects and the verily basic themes. It doesn't dig down enough, soI just found it frustrating a boring yeah. All the courts he uses are thebig famous ones right there, a real, deep cuts, the the example as itpleases you as you like, and I like o more, but that's actually, my favoritejokes. I did like that s like that. Sir. No proposes that the way humorworks in in one off jokes is that we rapidly transfer mental attention froman initial frame of reference to a new conflicting one in back and that thisjewel processing results in a simultaneous double association whichdefies every day, rationality and opens the doors to the subconscious andlaughter. That's all fainty way of saying that you end up at twoconflicting ideas and somehow they resolve they make sense yeah. So thisis what is known as the incongruity theory and this states back toaristotle or can shope this theory as been around for a while and in theintro to the pocket. Essentials Guard Butler points out that much of thehumor of Pratchett depends on having two ideas in mind at once, often withtwo words being confused. For an I mean this is ance yeah, but what animportant element that naick says is that the punch lion in order to breakthis tension, the punch line, has to be a surprise. You have to not see itcoming so confusion and then some realization, whereas intertextureusually play on something you haven't noticed before so you gradually come torealize. So you may might not create this big laughter, but you sort ofgoing. Oh, that's clever, which again, if we're saying to use these berthreferences are really obviously it's not triggering that realization or thatthat some punch of tension, like I think to you and me, there is noattention right. Yeah. We see it coming a mile away. We Lick up a book aboutwhich is me Beth, and we could almost like dot point what things are going tobe in I m, so pady is therefore more...

...readily or no gout party more readily,with what William, R FRI junior in one thousand nine hundred and sixty threebooks sweet madness, categorize as imaginative play, and this theory seemsto be that the suddenness of punch lions has an effect on forcing thereceiver into an internal redefining of reality, wherein what seems to bereality can be presented in terms of what seems to be unreality,communicating the message that this isn't real and confronting the thereceiver, where the paradox of a negative part defining the whole bysuggesting that the real is unreal and unreal Israel, which I've quoted thatbig long ridiculous. Quite so, this is fair as foul and foul is fair. At going on right, I told you, I had a high schooltutoring student once where we're doing Beth- and I told her just whateverquestion is. The answer is fair, as fell and fell as fair and she would notwrite it. I asked her a question of like what does this mean? She'd sayeverything, but fair is foul. Foul is fair and I feel like a that's kind ofthe key doveish ngs flipped yeah, there's also Thomas Shalts, as chapterin where discourse meets Dis world in the two thousand and eighteencollection, Terry Profits, narrative worlds which uses projects work, toexplain a theory of Porson humor based on by Association of intelectualreferences. It's interesting, but it kind of gets a bit silly saying thathuman derives from attempting to solve the mystery of whether a referenceexists or not in both worlds, trying to make sense of possible worlds andpossible futures all at once, which ponder Stevens would explain it. It'sjust quantum, but yeah sort of goes off the rails a bit with that one but yeah.So my conclusion after reading all this is that if the pleasure of humor ismeant to come from surprise or the gradual realization, or of solving apuzzle or realizing something that I'm not feeling challenged by this book,and so we Tis not, we did get a is that where we're at yeah I mean, I guesssome of this maybe comes off sounding a bit arrogant, but I'm it's like thattrigger is not getting pulled because I think, along with it being very obviousreferences. Some of them are really sloppily, integrative, yeah, Sinoreally don't like when they go to watch the actual players themselves andgranny weather ax is getting up in the audience going. That's not true, that'snot how it happened and it's like there's no twist there and she getsreally upset about like the the stage not being real and put her foot througha tree and a just granny weather back saying. But witches aren't bad actually,like isn't a joke yeah! No, it's my major one that jumped out of me that Ilike is at the start and that scene where they say or something comes andMagrady. U Tell by the pricking of your thumbs, and it says, like in the authorvoice, that Migret had learned a lot about witchcraft from books, a whichmeans she must have read big Beth to get there. That's it yeah. You couldinterpret that from it or that's the implication or she'd read some witchybook where you could tell when something was coming because yourthumbs tingled, I mean, maybe it's just the the prominence of Macbeth inculture and criticism, but having read like tens and tens of books and othercles, I can't find another source for the pricking of the thumbs. Okay, but Imean either way the illusion that we men to laugh at is the reference tomake bad nick Beth yeah. This imply is that Magra isn't a real witch becauseshe's pretending to be the witches from Macbeth but B. Myth doesn't exist andthat wouldn't be an issue if later on in the book, shakes the ShakespeareCharacter, who writes Macbeth m. So this is that many worlds theory ofwhat's true and stuff that stole is Fromantin, but o s find it reallyreally sloppy. It's also a similar CRA. I she's quite in new Beth, a Ibetdoesn't exist yet then she's, quoting she's a copying, something that doesn'texist. This is God we're going to dive deep into similar acres for which isabroad. So look forward to that next episode went seeds right now, becauseyou do have the well will well who receives inspiration from his head fromother times, like he's getting the voices in his head from differentworlds again. Protenus with this idea in a two thousand and thirteen article,remaking Shakespeare and diskoid, Jennifer Clement argues that since mostof the voices that wells hearing lo cultural references so marks brothersLaurel and hardy things like that, rather than the high lectered thatShakespeare's been elevated to the prached, is reconteuse Shakespeare aspart of a pop culture tradition rather than a high one in which he stands,Awane, which is interesting like that that's cool yeah, but all so. But nowI'm asking like. Doesn't I grat hear these voices as well? If she's doingthe pricking of her thumbs? I don't like it. What I will say is it frustrates me,and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but because I like well building to notcontradict itself and Trans is to to go yeah yeah. Let's call that and in inequal rights any where the works when, when she's asked but they're, notdestinies important, she just kind of like trugs, and then here they kind of-I don't know, they're still playing with the idea of definitely whether ornot it's Bob but the whole book kinders on it, and he was making fun of it NickRights and now he's using it and putting more weight on it and he hairs.Just frustrating me yeah. This is something that again, I'm going to saythis a lot, because these books go sort of hand in hand, but we're going totalk about this more in next episode, the riches a broad because there's some,I have some problems with the ideological inconsistencies betweenthat and me ill write as well. So this is a man. These are the first bookswere project sort of finding these characters, but yeah there are. Thesebig swings and thesee big claims that...

...he sort of bouncing back and forwardwith another problem that I had with the book and you sort of said theopposite. You said you wanted him to focus on Macbeth. Rather than you know,dipping into hamlet and everything, this idea of humor and and play ismeant to derive from contrasting two things and playing with them and stufflike to me. This. This book is too much Macbeth like it's not two things atonce. It's just my bit. If it had done more to discuss the idea of my Beth andactually used it in a meaning for way for me and then like also brought inall of those other jokes from Shakespeare, I feel like it would havebeen more or like used a few together, even just a hamlet in the mackbeth, andthen the jokes around it, but done it in a more interesting way, rather thanjust rehashing the old obvious jokes like I was all the obvious hitsbasically yeah. There's one of the things I like is Goso. I definitelywanted them to go harder of the the hamlet stuff, yeah, Camilla, lone holes,two thousand and eighteen atical, the Ludi party of Terry Pratchett. Shedefends pressured against Buckton's challenge that one party is simplynarrow and unproductive ridicule, which I think we're kind of saying, and sheargues that, instead of being limited to a single work, the manyheterogeneous elements of the discord come together to shape it as asovereign univers, which has an internal coherence. So it's independentof any single other work of art while mirroring many. I think this is true ofthe other books, but I don't think this really a flies which is abroad, whichis you've already said, because something I'm wondering is like. Isthis the most limited in scope of all the Diskar? I would say from what Ihave reread yes, because I f like I enjoyed it when I was younger, becauseI want like her just in counter Macbeth and was like a I get the big best jokes,but now it's just it's very flat, but more than it's. Also it's just it'sconfined to the king of Lanka. There's like three buildings round where at thewitches house were at the castle or were at the plays yeah like even equalrates, which has a much more limited character and thematic focus they'regoing to sample it. The park that go to different, realms, there's yeah thiswhole thing, whereas this seems very static, very limited, I'm wondering ifthat was- and I don't know where the P well Pratur was pretty smart. You knowhe was a bit comedy or players had to be in a certain one location within atwenty four hour period. All of those rules- maybe that was him having a goto that, but even then he doesn't stick to all of them. So what's the point ofdoing one or two, so the twenty four our things interesting, but I thinkthat this takes place over yeah to it. So maybe he's I don't know using a fewand then co complex felling others or having a joke about others, because Iguess now that I actually think about it yet, but fast falling up for fifteenyears. That's funny! That's funny because it tickles US yeah. That's howI thought that was a clever twist on the sleeping beauty thing rather thanjust being like it is sleeping beauty and we're not alone in this assessment.As much as this book is praised in the two thousand and seven collection, thepost, one fairy Tale Kevin Paul Smith, criticizes weird sisters for being themost poensis of the disquality, which that's a fancy word for saying it'sjust MC Beth and nothing else. One of the editors of guilty of literature,collection, Pharaoh medicine is also criticized weird sisters for havingworn macbeths, perhaps a bit too. Obviously on its story, sleeve andWedley Butler kind of agree, saying that he feels that some of the earlydiscard novels have too many avert references to the real world which riskdestroying the illusion of the internal consistency of disceret. But then hegives weird sisters the five out of five things so not sure. What's goingon there, so bother also points out in the pocket. Essentials introductionthat perhaps because of the necessity for central characters, not to knowquite what is going on pressures, often use a child child like or teenageprotagonist. Since the innicent abroad is able to fall in such a way that wefeel sympathy for their plat whilst laughing at and with them at the sametime, they innocence, rather than ignorance, seems to operate as somekind of Talisman and disarms any opponent. So this is also leading me towonder that well, does weird sisters also suffer for having its maincharacters, be people who are mature and in control like there's, no realattention, you never think granny weatherwax is going to fail M Yeah.This is true. You haven't run ahead, but an which is abroad there is thatthat stakes like grady weatherwax es is pitted against her double literally, sothat there is this idea of how she met her match where s here it's like. Well,you know she's going to out smart this dumb, Duke Yeah. You know how it'sgoing to end yeah, however, so is John Foot points out in his coming of age.Otaco wed sisters again takes the form of a Bill Denterai. He claims for thePrince, I'm John, for whom the kingdom literally waits tough to grow up andreach out a lesson. So that it can be realized, I thought that was aninteresting insight, any any felt on that name, because I was puzzling overit. Well, someone on the Elspat wiki suggests that the name is possibly areference to Jonathan Thomas or John Tom who's. The protagonist of Allendefosters spell sing a trilogy, so he's a Song Maje, which means he has the powerof rock and roll which will get to some music at some point. It's essentiallyrock and roll Namin, there's no, no, not as much music stuff as I'd like inthere, but there are total wizards yeah. I went and read this book out ofinterest because Total Wizards, rock and role magic is like a right. I haveto know what this is like. It's quite prejudice like I can definitely see theconnection. I I'm surprised. I couldn't...

...really find any sort of link betweenAlladad foster and Pratchett stuff. I don't know if you know an he's writtena bunch of like the Star Wars, an alien novels as essentially starn an notagain yeah, so maybe that that's just a referenceto you got John Tom Tom John, that that's the Best I've got. I Tak it yeah.Of course, what weird sisters is really about is the power of words as all ofperpatrated books are as we're learning. So you have the full saying that in theGuild of fools we learn the words can be more powerful even than magic. Butwhat's our imagine cried that's what we learned for a MAK right. So this iswhere that that's not I ideologic ideological inconsistency is cominginto it. For me, big ideas aren't fitting together as newly as I thinkthey should we're getting this emphasis, and this is reflected in the title ofthe book, which is something again a lot of the articles going about. Ithink I found a new twist on it a cause. So I mentioned before I found a reallygood thesis about Weird Sisters and that's by definitely Antonia laws whoexplains in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine masters, thesis, WeirdSisters and wild women that the very name of the weird sisters in Macbeth isan equivocal pun, that they are both wayward in the sense of capricious selfwilled and non conforming and weird in the sense of in the older sense of theterm, meaning they're involved with destiny. Interestingly, in in the firstfolio edition of mcbee, it's consistently spelt weird Ey ARD,accepting certain adance by a bank. I Macbeth, where the weird sisters arecalled the wayward systems which is thought to present their pronunciationof shakes this time, but there's also a Pan Yang on there, where they'releading him astray, a yeah that so you know this is word place smart. I, likeyou yeah, she smart, the recits, magones stuff. Okay, according to the OED weird, is tofind as a now, not an adjective, which I thought was was interesting out.There is the weird which is the principal power or agency by whichevents are predetermined. It's fate, its destiny, yeah, it's the magicalpower, its enchantment. It also refers to the three fates yewell talk aboutlater, some way in hers. Nine hundred and eighty book nights, black agents,witchcraft and magic and seventeenth century English drama. Anthony Harrisargues that the MON use of the word weird to mean strange or Uncini,actually derives from Macbeth itself. Yeah. I've seen that a lot to M. that'ssomething! That's overlooked as that. According to the oed, Weird, isactually an archaic form of the Word Word Right. So as lawless points outthey're, not just the weirdness of the way with sisters, they are Bob Wordssisters. A magic is as layers onions, track on more of a lawless points out.Renascence thought did not consider language to be a neutral contention,medium for the transition of meaning that they considered all things in theuniverse to have true names, and some universal language often assumed to beHebrew and that to give false names was assumed against nature. So, therefore,committing a crime against nature by using magic, which is are alsorevolting against the idea of language itself, and indeed I in Macbeth theword sisters to Mac bout th. What when he asked? What are you doing this andwe're doing a deed without a name so lawless orgies that the literary whichcharacter therefore became defined as a person capable of defying the naturalorder through language, pointing out that projects which is use their powerto dispel untruth in favor of reality still talking about words and similates?There's a Miss Cote that is around and a lot of these academic articles, whichis that weird sisters is written using a hundred percent recycled words. Well, it's a good joke, except it's notin the book, Any multiple editions of the Book I'vebeen calling up. Apparently it's meant to be in now at the start, like in theacknowledgements pages and things, but I've been calling up friends or havecopies of the book. Like is your book of this in it I've check on mineinversions, I can't find it in any of them yeah. This decided on a lot ofplaces, although no one gives an actual page reference for it, except for aRusu from the Monash Journal that then it wasn't in my am page of the versionsI have, and also a twenty fourteen book on English and German Grandma, whichcites the good reads quote page, for it is Tis wow, so yeah, I don't think thisquite exists. Laws follows Dian. Percuss claims that the modernarchetype of the witch and popular culture has its origins in macbathad.She says the the three major contributions to what we think aboutwhich is today I've a macbeth. The brothers grew of fairy tales and thewicked which of the West from was a vels. Now we're going to talk aboutthose last two next episode, which is a Bron but just acknowledges that thereare previous influential depictions of which is in the sense of the femalemagician or sort or sorceress that appear in the works of Thomas Malloryand Edward Spencer. Sir Ellis, could you maybe tell us abit about the representation of which is in Spencer? I don't know. I havemuch to add from and on from last time, because aters often misread, as I said,he includes good witches and bad witches and good wizards and bandwizards. He links it. A lot to the superto of Catholicism in Duester isthe big baddy and she pops out Multiple sans ter out she's, the one who has thecup of the fils of her Ford occasion and Sheblow is the Red Cross night awayfrom faith in the character of UNA. But...

...she represents faith by taking on UNA'smy treading, if transforming herself, to look like he Naso, the sender ofmarrying and double gang o might be come up again and which is a road bythe Senor will. But she does that as a beautiful woman Deesse, when she issort of revealed like her true nature, she's, evil and ugly and gross, andprobably gives it away because of the filth of the Ponics Cup thing whocarries that around it, but gonna one of those. You can't just get a cut you're right, a very achievable dream. But the point I want to drive home hereis, even though Spencer does add to the tradition of which craft in this waylike jueses able, which we would recognize her as evil, which it is morecomplex than that and he puts in good witches as well, and he tries to likeChase Fidus unpack. Why we think of which is as evil and lease than to thesuperstition of Catholicism, because the problem with Catholicism was how doyou differentiate that from magic? If it was something like transisset ation,which is just the idea that you can turn bread into the body of Christ andwind into the bud of Christ, then how is that different to magic of turning amanagement you know, so that is what Spencer is doing. Also in the in thewitch Ronald Hutton acknowledges the Socianda, who we were talking aboutlast episode as some of the early representations of which is that hesays they bear some resemblance to which is, although he points out thatneither is human nor explicitly evil there. This one of these ambiguous,temperas, Demi, God characters they say: They're, not witches, because they'rein our sense, because they're not ugly, have doing evil deeds. They arebeautiful women who have been wrong by men and use sexuality to fuck them up.I can also refers to make best wid sisters as most famous witches in thewhole of airly, modern literature, so yeah. We we're going to look at some ofthe the history and influences of Macbeth, which you know people havedone, but we're sort of focusing on the portrayal of witches, so Shakespeare'sprimary source when riding with Beth was apparently Rafael, hon sheds,revised o IV re hued and eighty seven chronicles of Scotland. However,according to Kenedeus quite good, one thousand nine hundred and ninety fourarticle, the historiography evolution of the Macbeth narrative, the earliestand most valuable Scottish text that tells them Beth is the Eleventh CenturyIris, Ma Mariana, Scuti Chronicon, which claims in accordance withShakespeare that Duncan the king of Scotland, was killed by his Erma. Henot all historical accounts, support Duncan's murder by Macbeth, although itis supported by the fourteenth century. Scottish poet, Andrew Wanton, who, inhis original chronicle of Scotland, portrays Mac Beth as Duncan's sisterson, whose claim to the phone comes from his wife, which I thought wasinteresting in giving the twist with the fall at the end of weird sisters,and so maybe prechede going a little bit beyond the shakespy text. There,maybe, and also interestingly, in wintons with Beth Macbeth, is the sonof the devil, which is the most amazing discovery anyone's ever made BluesEls's Research White Open, except she already knew it, and I felt really bad about telling youthat I considered ly you just didn't for a while. You message like I'd, open the message, but notsaying that there was a new one, and so it wasn't flashing out with like newmessage. I'm sorry I did. I did explain to it me. I'm read for like a day, andI have to come call im back on now. Is that Nice? Is that not awesome? Is thatnot the batter shit? You've ever heard a yeah, but I already had it some again. I tried to put it nicely, butwinton also has macbeth make the three fates not explicitly witches. Ratherthe fates themselves in a dream, and I'm not going to read this out, but ifyou got the little screen shoe take a is: Do you want me to try and read it?Okay, no one else is going to read to the first. He heard a Gangen by lo theGondo, the fine of combate. I think that's meant to be, and then Oh, Idon't know how to do that. One to the to the Turkey sister said a like to it.Tough here of Mary Onde. I see the thing that one's easy. The thread saidthe Yonder. I see the king or this herd. He is in his dreaming. No any ape out tthat is dreaming. Spout Diem Y NG in his youth height was like saying itwas the same was mad so that I will start stuffing there, because the pointof this is not the words. It's have their spelt, because that's all thisand immediately wanted to throw it in Google translate. I was like way. Thisis English. Yeah yeah, I keep forgetting you deal in likeeighteenth century onwards. Well, I mean I'm aware that words are old andweird, but this was. This is intense right. This is a block of no word isthe same shape, pressor middle e, a so the point that this, though, is thatwords change so much over a thousand years, which I thought was aninteresting point to make. Given the idea of the power of words and they'relike they are, the truth is the true names of things. Well, the true name ofa thousand years ago is very different...

...to a change yeah. So that's sort of thethe Scottish origin of the Mickety, but the philologist know O K check becausetrace the starve Macbeth. All the way back to North Myth orgy arguing thatthe feature that seems to most conclusively point to a norse ratherthan Celtic origin for the Macbeth story is the three weird sistersthemselves and the fact that they're in the old of text, it's emphasized thatthey're wearing unfamiliar clothing, which usually isn't commented in Irishmyth, but in Normie, is characteristic of supernatural women and she connectsthis to the norns. All the the three fates which we're going to talk moreabout the tri, the triple goddess on and all of that when we get tomasquerade. So she traces this to the saga of Non Agasto or the guest of thenorns in which the hero Nornagesta is given a provecal birth by threesupernatural women, the third being unhappy and not being consulted by theother two before they went to do this places a curse on not Agasti Macbethhimself actually also appears in the play as MAG Gortha Mag, B, J o t h, r sWaitin scrabble yeah. This is Icelandic and accounts of the battles of Skidama,which I'm sure nanny old could have a lot of fun. With that word and theearly thirteenth century, Sagas of Okna and Olaf trigger a song, you have justone scrabble. I thought that was interesting because of this you've gott e, the three witches or the the three norns. They give two positiveprophecies and then the third is a twist which happens in McEwen otherthey're all sort of ambiguous. But you also have the three gifts that theriches give to Tom done in wid sisters bear you sort of have no Ogan and gratgiving him these outward gifts, and then the twist is that brandy, otherwax just he's going to know himself know it thyself young Tom John, whichagain we will talk about more in which is abroad. So Shakespeare was alsopossibly influenced by the depiction of Donald's murder of King Duff in theScottish historian. Hector Boses, scitare history, again something nannyog could do wonders with and versus tech shares. Many similarities withShakespeare's play especially Donald's, being motivated to murder by his wife,but it's James B, South points out in his chapter on Weird Sisters inphilosophy and Terry Proche, lady Macbeth's, bloody hands in weirdsisters are transferred to the Duke who actually committed the murder, whichtells us something about how prache views human responsibility right. Noone made do Hallet, kill verance, it wasn't the witches through prophecy. Itwasn't his wife, even though she is like paw hungry and things. It's notthis destiny thing. Despite the title, it's like he wanted to Haud a kingdom.He killed a guy. Now he has one in terms of destiny. Really. What it'sabout is whether or not the witches, the ones that brought young Tom Johnfor the throw or the falls of the throne changed it it it's not aboutwhat make the ethos about which is who killed, who killed Duncan? Why, as inyou, know not too physically killed darker, but who created Duncan's deathand what this, what the fall out from that was, which I think is anotherreason it lost me. I found the Duchess to be an uninteresting representationof Lady wibe. She doesn't really do much. He just sits there and saysbitchy thing I like the at the end. Her come up. Ance is theclearing of all the animals who essentially terror a part. I I likethat just as a rare sort of violent image, but yeah not a whole lot ofdeath to her. No, I wondering why Practi did that,because he trying to take it away from gender and make it more about you, asyou say, responsibility, or was he just not interested in Latin it bear? I dothink it's an interesting point that, yes, he does in the gender reversalthing that he's doing with these books is. He is taking that responsibilityaway from the Laforce, though she's a bad person. It's always that the dukethat did the murder yeah and he has the bloody hands potii that in the textyeah, and what projet very obviously saying through this book, is that it'snot so much the winners, the right history, but it is an historianseveryone who comes after rather than the duke himself. It's hill who'sriding the history yeah. I agree, but I think it's, the writers and thehistorians of the winning side, like you're having just done to Sparta findof the Fairy Queen as Spencer, is taking a part a lot of very recentlydeveloped propaganda, English propaganda about the Spanish or materabout America in Scots about the war with King, Philip of Spain, and he'sreally digging into this idea of yeah. We've won and we've written history,but at what cost? And then he manipulates it all, and he writes thehistory again, but also he undermines it and shows what actually has happenedto the to the careful reader so that the three women also appear in versusaccount and that and that's where they, the prophecy comes in where theyproclaim that berth will be king, that an co, an co will not, but he will givebirth to a lock series of Scottish power. Far claims that boshes windsisters are strangely dressed but says this doesn't make them supernatural,and I disagree with that. I think it's pretty well coded into the boast andthe wintern narratives that these are supernatural figures. These aren't justfanale, dressed women. Right wintering, however, explicitly describes them asthe Word Sisters, which the Sixteenth...

Century Scottish historian John Baladin,later applied to versus text because of their clothing. So we're getting theclothing as the signify here. Yeah and boasters telling the weird sisters arealso described as being extraordinarily beautiful and fairy like beingsteadfastly admired by the nobles, which points towards the the glamourthat will become a big part of lots. And, ladies, there is a couldron there,which is a pictured around a cauldron, which is something that laws claimsthat before Macbeth, the Coltran was simply a peasant, cooking vessel andshe's. Trying to connect that to the specific trouser witchcraft beenconnected with female domesticity is, but there is a caldron in the burst,telling yeah and again linking back to religion and declining magic, caldron,Pigtale Eso. All these ideas are present in all these different tecs anda Shakespeare does and as proches playing with hill, bringing all thesepop culture ideas together and codifying them. So, where her longerreferencing these older ideas, we stop at Shakespeare for the most part inpopular culture. That's the historical background. This brings us up toShakespeare's with Beth itself. That's the chapter on the riches of Lanka inthe folklore, disque co written by Pratchett and Jacqueline Simpson pointsout. We we've got this sort of ambiguous portrayal of these, thesethree supernatural women and the norns, and all these classical texts whereShakespeare is very clear as to what the wides are, because you have thestage direction like into three witches right, but it's also clear that theyare the weird sisters, like you say, it's three witches but Shakespeare thensets about immediately complicating that he's, praying on a superstitionwhich I think we're about to get into in a big way. Yeah. I guess that it'sless fringing witches as the fates as fame, framing the fates as witches.They no longer this sort of neutral removed power. There then now there'sall the connotations that come with witchcraft Yellin that that's beenwritten through Shakespeare gets the name of the weird sisters from HollandShad, who wrote that the common opinion was that these three women were eitherthe weird sisters, that is the goddesses of destiny, or else somenymphs of fairies imbued with knowledge of prophecy by the necromanticalscience. So his account of the weird sisters is very ambiguous right, he'sGad. They could be theories that could be named. That could be necromance,they could be in it. Shakespeare comes in and goes no gear, which is Beth, isactually written to go flatter and Safaris King James, the first and itwas under his rule. The witchcraft was made a capital offence and because he'strying to make fun of even though he's sucking up to James He's, also tryingto make fun of James and all of society and goes all right. Let's make himwitches then, and let's like follow this line of Thot all the way through.Did they actually make anything happen or not? Like reassess your ownsuperstition guys, King James is interesting because he wrote demonology,he was writing it from one hund, fine tuned and ninety seven, and I thinkit's important to emphasize the fact that King James was absolutely thatshit crazy. He was insane yeah, so the demonology, it's a dialogue betweenPhilip Mathews, which is in the Lena and it pison the Noah and and he hisargument in the demonology is that the existence of witchcraft is proved byits reference in the Bible Right. So you got things like the far asmusicians and the witch vendor and Simon Magasins, like if the Bible saysthat it's true, that's that's his accent. So if there are which is in theBible, therefore, there are witches go and then he goes on to define two sortsof Mege, gig or necromancy, which is high magic, that we talked about in theequal right episode and then there's sorcery or witchcraft, which is lowmagic. So this is where, when we're asking, where does that divide comefrom? We were talking about as literature. Last time? Historically, Imean this is going to be the big moment for that divide right. I already exist,but this is the king laying it down yeah, we can see it. We can see it as aturning point and he argues that lower magic, witchcraft magic is one out ofgodlessness and is m motivated by revenge and greed, whereas the first isis a knowing blasphemy, that's Metivier, by a curiosity right. This is thefasting idea of pushing limits and justice he herd. Is that that's evenworse, because which is well, they don't know any better and they're.Blinded by passions and poverty, whereas majors and necromancers, theyknowingly bless fom against God, which is the worst thing you can possibly doso as much as right, yeah yeah as much as he's famous for you know, the witchhants he's actually condemning practitioners of Hypatica more so thana lot of ones, although he does say that which is and source is a slave toSatan, while majors and necromancers are masters of devils right. So youhave again fast as much as mallow's played hares the twist hers, the ideathat they are something demons to do their bidding, whereas which is ourservants of Satan yeah, because the whole premises you sleep with Satan andyou become his bat boy. Well, yeah, that's sort of one of those ones whereyou know self fulfilling prophecy. He also explains the gender differentialin which is by saying that there's twenty women given to the craft, wherethere is one man and the reason for that is easy, because women are frailother men and therefore easier to be entrapped by the gross snares of thedevil. And again this is proved by the seven seduction of eve and the Bible.So it's the fault all the fall. So the...

...reason why James is so obsessed withwitches and rich craft is that he had been subject to several supposedassassination attempts that allegedly involved witchcraft, the most famousbeing an alleged attempt to sink his ship on his way back from Norway infifteen. Ninety, for which a group of witches and their male leader, JohnFian, were child, tortured and executed. Kicking off what became known as theNorth, back, which trials see if fi openly claim to have deals with thedevil during his trial and execution and which of Satanic Associations werealso reinforced by King James's, dogmatic Ziller, whereby he emphasizedthe alleged link between King and God, so that any crime committed against theking was therefore the equivalent of a crime committed against God himself andthat any practice or a dosen witchcraft is thereby considered treason by thefault. Please, O o tracked him in the logically powre words here. Despite these lofty accusations as lawspoints out, which is were mainly curious of crimes against the acceptedfemale sphere of action and responsibility, they were accused ofthings like killing infants and domestic animals or making itimpossible to bake bread or churn butter. So yeah not high crison, somuch as just household grievances as perkises, which is where therebyconstructed as anti housewives or anti mothers, which is the name of my fifthfavorite Norma gine album for I just throw this coeto annoy. I justwant people to know that silence indicates me staring into the falsesgetting cut out. I'm going to edit in you when you are like Hell Satan: Let'sgo I'm staring into the camera like I'm on the office. Well, this also argues thatShakespeare's weird sisters are more to the contemporary discourse, aboutwitchcraft than to any previous literary tradition, move thesolidification of the concept of the fiction of which only occurring withMacbeth and other plays of the Jacobean witchcap Ford, such as Don Lillis andDimian, and mother Bombi, although Louis, which is were largely comicaland non threatening, do you know either of these plays elise, not in any detail.I think I've heard of the first one I don't know mother bombing yeah. I did aquick wickape dia on the mood they're not worth going into. I don't think:Okay, yeah, essentially dude advent of King James, and all this meant thatwhich is had to be taken more seriously. There were no longer these comicalfigures that you could you could put in plays that they're. Now this veryserious threat, all they meant to be. So how is therefore I've used thechecks, pears, which is the same function as other supernatural figureslike ghosts and demons and articles did in early dramatic traditions, providingsupernatural intrusions to facilitate the plot, whereas petares ly they'vebeen sort of year, figures of ridicule and comic parody and stuff laws therefor argues that they represent an entirely new literary tradition ofcharacter more over in one thousand. Nine hundred and ninety six articles,spirits, ghosts and gods in Shakspeare, Christen Schmidt observes that, in theearliest phase of his career, Shakespeare seemed to have foundedattempting, on occasion to draw on his audiences obsession with witchcraft,giving as exact as an example. The comedy of it were in Male characters,frequently accuse female ones of being witches. There's even an invocation inthe second henry, the sixth play where the witch mother Jordan conjures theapparition Asnath, which is an Anagram of Satan. So how about that that one? Ididn't know, though we are he, but that Tis Henry the sixth uh yeah. I don'tthink it's just he does it on occasion. I think all of Macbeth is him yeah,drawing on people's obsession with witchcraft and actually asking them toexamine it. Superstition is interesting to me Beth, because you know the wholethe horses eat each other thing. I do not know the whole the horse to o eachother sing, all right so they're talking about you, know, Paris, ballsbows for other kingdoms turned on itself. All of this weird stuff, that'shappening on one of the things. As they say, all the horses are eating eachother and your twelve students, as we have both experienced, will just quoterandom stuff without really thinking about it, but it isn't that the horseseat each other, be a someone comes in and says. Oh, I heard what theyactually say. T is said that they eat each other and the whole part of theplay of like the world tone topsy. Turvy hinges on that moment. The horseis eating. Each other is the link to the neck bit. But it's her say- andthis is like central to what's going on on mcbee. Nothing is actually topsytervy. They talked about world as having done at because the king is deadand someone who shouldn't be king takes the throat, but nothing actually swaps,and this is shakespear going. Your superstition is silly that is like thebedrock of the play and in terms of human poking fun, a superstition, I'veadded some other examples. One is there's a joke in the book about. Whyis he got a hump on his back and at places yeah in widest Ers, and thatleaks is to reach at the third, where, obviously he is malformed but shakesthe drums it up to make him more make it more evil? I think it's interesting that the fouris using gossip and jokes to spread the word about the witches it's verysimilar to the idea of superstition is to stuff that can be passed on andpassed on when the witches are coming in and trying to tell them theirwitches but they're having that debate with the guards they go, O her nose.What a witch is and the which is like Oh yeah and then start using thatagainst him. So I think Pratchett is aware. More than perhaps I've given himcredit for what Shakespeare is trying to do and is playing a little bit withthis idea of superstition, I'm sort of going the other way. Now that you'vepointed this out, becauses like...

...practise playing with rumor and heresay and win sisters, but if you're telling me Shakespeare Ready, does thatand make Beth? Well that's another way that we sisters just isn't that playfulor original I'd say he does it in a way that I didn't expect him, but it wasinteresting like the joke on. Why is he got to harp on his back? I was like a Iget that I that's good, but maybe I'm just being a literature not there. Sowhat does Shakespeare actually say about which is a macbeth? Do you wantto read the quot I've been reading a lot lots of quotes? Do you want to readthe existers the weird sisters, hand in hand, posters of the sea and land thusdo go about about thrice to nine and thrice to mine and thrice again to makeup nine peace the charms bound up? Yes, so that's how they have been introducedto mcbee Nice reading, much better the way or you're now responsible for allShakespeare quotations, so I just want to put that at because we've got thesenumber thing and we got the three by Three Eagles: Nine. Doesn't that haveanything to do with the male thing? No, because it was like three and fourwhich makes seven, which is the perfect number m. This was like male square, aman square. I guess you could spin it that way. I mean we can interpret howwe want. There's also make that remarks that they should be women and yet theirbeds forbidding him to interpret that they are so which we sort that we havea joke about. You know men playing women and Shakespeare players, but alsowe're playing with that ambiguous Geta thing with witches that we were talkingabout about that. It is part of their identity that they're blurring genderand also sort of points towards the dwarfs, and there be so we talked aboutit and seen academical. So I thought I thought that was an interesting one.Every time I made a dwarf in Pratchett world now I imagine it as a drag queen.Okay, because of our conversation last, which makes it better. Honestly, youshould try makes it much more fabulous for you. So although laws argues that the weirdsisters be able to make Beth represent traditional notions of which is asfilthy and ate old women as m Isabel captive points out in her age and Ridge,article that we talked about last time in a culture that still equatesacceptable and desirable femininity with beauty and youth, the figure ofthe witch as an old crone, Hag, Gorgon or Medusa keeps haunting cinema screensand works of ficin and feed the sumption that women cease beingphysically attractive once they reach of age, yea and chearges. That praches,which is novels fashion, a space for the celebration of old age and theexpression of a full arrange of perspectives that challenge theprevailing altitudes to old people in the process of agent in ContemporarySociety, through the figures of granny weatherwax, and will many of the wasgoing to say my grabut mgrate young. So, although to us, maybe it's a weakness,I was saying that any weather acton any age so assured, and some in control ofeverything something creches doing that's kind of revolutionary withinfantasy is betraying elderly women as capable yeah and the protagonist reallyof a text. I guess that's why I like the like the Caracteriza ion also thanthe relationships betten them yeah. This is where we get the thing whereshe's arguing that, instead of reversing the gender rolls just byturning women and putting them in mens positions, proces subverts existingparameters that define generales by presenting female jobs as toughnecessary and a bubble rock. So that's the context of make Beth at the time ofrunning, but it's interesting. How much of that context has sort of beenembedded within culture itself, because of Macbeth that these ideas are stillrelevant now because he was, you know, someone argue making fun of them at thetime. That's actually led to their perpetuation all right, that's thehistorical, deep dive, the and now we get to get on to the fun stuff cause inthe in the secret section of last episode. I tease that we were going totalk about which is rubbing Closin Che idmen on Bob Stick so that they couldset them in their vaginas. We're going to talk about that right now, so yeahyeah. So I mentioned that. Well, my favorite scene, in all of widest Ers isgranny, whether ax an navigating the kingdom on their broom stick. So youknow that made me think. Well, where does this idea of which is writingbroomsticks come from now? If you, Google, white of riches, ride Brimstin,one of the first things that comes up is the two thousand and SeventeenForbes article tod of the origin of which is writing birdsters from natureplus Shakespeare, by quote natural pharmacologist David Crowl, who claimsthat herbal ingredients traditionally used in witches, oinment such as man,dreck, Devlin, night, shade and so on, were all who is Magenis and the greatereffects could be achieved by ingesting these ointments either rectly orvirginally. Therefore, brooms no rector is something I've heard. Idon't know, as we mentioned a previous podcast drug scammed, but how? Ifyou've done this rot in so I'm not shoved a room. Stick up my asorry, but if you have we want to hear from you, we do. I have questions socrawls claims are based on PHONAC and BBC radio presented John Man, onethousand nine hundred and ninety two book motor magic and medicine, and hejust that which is ingested, their tments anally, O vaginal to avoidpoisoning their stomachs because for some reason that works. However, healways sides bullshit, inquisitive, testimony and forced confessions, aright. Well, the A N. He only say it's one UN Reference Twentieth CenturyReport of pollution ations by someone trying to recreate this effect. I meanhe probably seems like he knows what he's talking about, but this is there'snot a whole lot of actual evidence being presented here. Moreover, most ofthe examples he cites emphasize deep...

...sleeping the result of interestingthese substances, so he cites an experiment with a similar waitman thatwas conducted on the wife of a hangman, I'm sure willingly, which was describedby the physician to perjuice the third in fifteen forty five, who says thatupon being anointed, she suddenly slept in such a profound sleep with her eyesopen. Like a rabbit so that he could not imagine how to wake her up, she waspretending, so you left her alone sort of points to the borrowing right.What Gran weatherwax does when that think she is a hair which I'm sure isconnected to hallucinations and things man also points out the description ofthe portion given to Bermond Juliet by Friar Lawrence. Do you want to readthis one? You don't have it so I've got to read this one yeah, you do! Nowarmth no breath shall testify their livest the roses in thy lips and cheekchaffed to Pale ashes by eyes. Windows fall like death when he shuts up theday of life. Each part deprived of suckle government shall stiff and starkand cold appear like death, and in this pore of likeness of shrunk, death, thoushalt continue two and forty hours and then awake as a form of pleasant sleep.So yes he's linking that to these sort of witches augments the similar effectsthere, but no mention of flying or hallucinations right. We got moreconnections to Shakespeare than borstick. Okay, remind Julia is reallyinteresting because everyone talks about it as a romance and fair enough,but it's also the one of them will got the key of the Shakespearean plays likein the crit with the scene, where Juliet stand there on her own that onewith the potion like this is gravy, add poetry, stuff, yeah, it's it's. Themicromicrons play crawl also says that the court,legendary pharmacologist Susan Band Horowitz, pointed out to him that oneof the ingredients used by Shakespeare's witches and Beth is slipsof you, which suggests well, she says, suggests the Kimta jug packs pate taxi,which is derived from the Pacific you tree and has been claimed to causedelirium and hallucinations and cancer patients. I'm not sure about this one,the the you tree is native to the American Pacific Northwest. So I'm notsure how likely Shakespeare in England would have known about it. You treeswere known, but maybe not a specific new tree or she's, connecting it tothis specific Yean that has this chemical, because yeah the Britishcolonization of America began in the? U S S, maybe I don't know if that makesit more or less likely that he would have been familiar with these plants ifthey're bringing them back over like look what we found- or I don't know,but conversely, in one thousand nine hundred and fifty four book with crafttoday, the founder of the Mon wicken move men, jerold Gardner states that no,which ever flew through the air on a broomstick or anything else, at leastnot in two Arplan, came in all right Gerald. Let it a fat so he instead associates the Broudtwith fertility and crop growing charms which involved riding around on a poleor a broom like a hobby horse and claims that fertility pole shape, likefelices, were merely symbolic right, no one's stuff in the s up themselves. ToIt's not fun, I mean I'm sure someone is I required, but I cola soessentially what I say right he's saying: The witches they're going onthey're doing the happy gin more with their broomsticks for their. Where isthat the with the patrol a goten further suggested, which is carriedpoles and quarter stars to meetings as weapons and tools for traversingthrough forests, their pull vaulting over ditches, and he says that theywent naked to the meetings, because if they were rated, they might not havetime to dress and they'd have to leave their clothes behind so they're, betteroff just going naked. So that there's no evidence. It sounds like somethinghe wanted to happen. Gerald Garner in Venter of the drop, the town from yourboyfriend challenge. Nineteen fifty four gun also claims that Greece assetwas put on the pole during fertility rituals. Oh the east infection yeah. He claims the resources put onthe pole during these fertility, rituals could also be used as evidenceagainst the which is so that's why they were taking broom stick, which could beexplained away as being dirty. There's a lot of speculation going on here. DoThings, as I say, is confection splinters, winches yeah. This is whereit gets really weird right. So he says that during prosecution ties they wouldput the Bronti between their legs and ride. On them, when approaching theirmeeting places as a sign that they belong to the cult as like, I am witch,but also as a defense or if someone comes out eve, but like a a lance, Ithink he's doing a lot of yeah speculating guesswork. If thepharmacologist guy was speculative, then I think so is God now yeah girl,Challis your where you footnotes bad well, he does say that nowadays theyjust walk or take a bass or whatever. So you know he's forgiven with the Times.He also mentions a Mexican goddess, who was always represented as naked andcarry or writing a burn. She claimed represented cleanliness or ritualpurity. I didn't work into this too hard, but I couldn't find anythingreally prominent or specific. That would connect that to anything. Soagain, I feel like he's reaching for just any explanation at this point:Yeah, it's all pretty loosely connected and far fit. I think do you agree? Oh,I agree yeah,...

...it's not practice at all. Now I feellike, which is a much smarter than that they're not going to turn up on a broomstick or especially, if they're like granny weather, ax, right yeah, youimagine her writing naked on a brute. Maybe my grant would be that's thescene before the start of were sisters is great weather, acting and Nandy Agasitting by the thing in mgrate out of the woods, Fakin riding a broom andthey're like well honys like I didn't, bring them and they're like that's dumb. It's called or they're not being persecuted yet sonow, so as for more schole investigations according to the Fokerof disk, well, the fashion for broom sticks began in late, medieval Franceand Flanders, and only started spreading after about sixteen hundred,but in he is two thousand and seventeen book. The witch history of fear, RonaldHuntin, claims that the earliest picture of a witch riding a broomstickcomes from a four hundred and forty French pamphlet describing a which isSabbath and that the sticks are presumably anointed with magical agent,which was the main means of local mission to the Stabbeth in earlyaccount. You've got the picture there that I did yeah. That's the pictureshe's talking about so apparently that's the earliest of our reference to whichis writing writing Brunstock for your stain forty, you put prate in the color.You put your magic Lundon on your broom and get you where you got to get. Thereare similar depictions of male magicians writing their stares inMedieval Norse literature. Although I was reading today back in equal rights,there's a bit where gray weather wax as one of wizards ride their staffs, andhe says that would be undignified, so not not in this world, but in roundworld he medievalist literature. Apparently this was a thing, althoughHutton suggest that the distance entire and space between the north stuff and afifth century France is too big in time and space for it to be anything morethan you know, kind of a coincidence or a common tradition. Instead, he tracesthe idea to Roman witches in the second century, Latin fictions of Applaus andLucian and ancient associations with the classical figure of the stricks,which is an anthropophagus metamorphosis bird. Well, I just likesomething: Okay and just athrocious means eating human flesh, becausepeople would say cannibalistic, but someone who talks about in technicalterms about mediating yeah. If you're accountable, you eat the meat of thesame species that you are. If you're anthropophagous you eat human flesh, sohe ultimately contends that medieval conceptions of which is were a mixtureof Mediterranean child killing, night demonesses and Germanic Cannibalwitches very cool, but in the Mallius mill of a can, which is not just thename of the debt album by the Dutch death Menela pestilence, but a FAM ous,O n fourt hundred and eighty six three soon witchcraft. It translates tohammer of the witches which is not just the name of creditis two thousand andfifteen comeback record. Well, you set that up. I did for you to smash it downwith you, so the Melos ith Mais Mtaka, the meliusmother, claims that witches road on a piece of wood, Greece, peote madepartly from human baby fat. Also in the French philosopher Jean Burdens, Delade Monstery des Sorceries, or of the Demon Mania of the sorcerers sure.That's a Black Mail Alba from an fifteen, a d. eighty suggest thatpeople applied the agmen to their own bodies and their for themselves, whileothers rode on animals or brooms, or a pole and Hutton likens. This animalwriting to depictions of the classical nature, gods, Otamus or Diana right.The hunting goddess from Break Literature, the French MagistrateNicholas Remain One thousand fire hundred and ninety five three demonbooks contains confessions by witches who claimed that they had flown uptheir chimneys on an annoyed basket or brooms, which that sounds interestingto me, because it is this sort of something more over looking here is theAssociation of Broom Sticks with female domesticity? Again, maybe it's. Theidea of, like you got to fly out your chimney. Is that the only way for womento get out of the House right? They can't just walk out the front door, I'mgoing to the Sabbath back later right, wait til, he run to sleep and go outthe way. Santa comes in yeah. A more recent examination is provided by ChasS Clifton in his chapter, which is still fly or do they in the twenty ninecollection magic, an etre in the modern west. They suggest that flight must bea metaphor for astral projection or imagine travel which, I guess, sort ofgoes back to well I'll, listen to Gen pointments. Other legends suggest thatflying ointments were given to which is by Satan when they were initiated intoa covenant. How were they in Wichart today? Gardener suggest that theoinment were merely lanolin or wool wax, which was taken sheep lands and worn ascamouflage and protection against the ardor cold, similar to how longdistance swimmers might grease themselves up. I mean again speculative,but essentially now we've got commander, which is voting through the woods, for they would wear these as oldfactory Afridis, with broom writing being part of a separate fertilityritual yeah, he says he'd, never know any witches who anointed themselves allover again. This is the guy who's inventing or reviving the on wickermovement, so he's hanging out with which, as and he says- I don't knowanyone who's actually done this, but he had been showed a recipe for an anoto.The only actual suggestion of labial application that I've come across isfrom the plant pharmacologist Dennis Mc...

Kennas memoir of his brother, TerenceMc Kenna, okay hit me well, he he was a well known pioneer and promoter ofPsychedelic and he tells of e t s, scholar and keeper of EsotericKnowledge. John Parker, who claimed that which is flying UNDON, sometimescontain traces of Hashishin, opium and other psychedelic substances, and theyuse the broom as an applicator to apply the engine to their Labia, where thesesubstances could be readily absorbed, with the resulting state of deliriumand disorientation inducing a feeling of rising and falling and rushingheadlong through the air and of flying the a the only other reference I foundis the crime and fantasy author Michael Harrison, one thousand nine hundred andseventy three book the roots of witchcraft, which talks about broomsbeing used as Dildo like applicator. But again, all of these are second orthird hand accounts, so I can't find any like actual, which is saying yes, Ihave done this yeah. Okay, I'm saying- and these areall men it even gardener. Gardner is speaking for the witches he knows. So,if you've done this, we want to hear about it. Yeah, Hatra, special orsomething we've just talked a lot about the burden fly which is used in thescene where, where she flies around the the kingdom, which is, of course, asort of parody or secondary reference to the sleeping beauty, fairy talewhich we are going to go into detail about with which is abroad, but it alsogives us the first mention of Black Alice. Who is he well? It's Alice,aliss rat, so not thinking who's, yeah, t e, the Ferote, whichchurch is the combination of all them, as is the wicked witch who's cackledand went at the power right in weird sisters. Black Alice is she's thesended for all the fairy tale, which is but she's a standing for specificallyin wid sisters has on Gredel right, she's live in the gingerbread house andthe kids come and push her in the in the oven at the end, she's, a very oldwoman who is leaning on a crutch, and she has red eyes and can't see very far,but has a keen sense of smell, so she's kind of animalistic as well and she's,described as being wicked and godless wicked, implying the practice ordisposed to practicing evil according to the oed. So that sort of your fairytale. You know, stereotype of the witch, but in the witch in history, Donpercase talks about the archetype of the Cannibal which who she says, is adock double of a mother who will not or cannot provide food for her childrenand which became manifest in the old English hand, on Gredel type story,called Black Alice, really yeah and then actually lines up, because inresearching for which is a broad. Next episode been going through the grinstails and one of their unpublished tales. Most of the ones they didn'tpublish were because they were from non German sources. So I can't remember ifthis was a frichard or a Dutch one, but there's one called the children offamine, which is essentially had selandria without all the fun. What doyou mean that so the hous there's? No Man in me, riches there's no! Well! Youhad some Grettel, it's actually a bread house rather than a gingerbread houseand in the grim version, a space substance, a yeah, so the tale ofcanceling and Gretel in the grim version. There's the children of awoodcutter who can't provide for his children. So his wife suggest they letthey leave the kids in the forest so that they have two less mouths to feed,and this is a recurring trope of the grim stories is that this goes back tothe mother, who refuses to feed her children. That percase was talkingabout yeah and the husband is always the hero like the Patriarchs standing,because he refuses and he's reluctant, and then they kill the witch who's likea stand in for the mother and they come home and the mother has strangely diedand they're all happy to be re united with their father. So yeah, the GrisFairy Tales A E, I'm not great that they're brutal from what I remember.Okay and then they are the cleaned up, virgins yeah. So there's also thisother one. Children are famine. That is essentially that story without theembellishments about the witch and the House and everything it's just there'sa mother who threatens to actually eat her children because they have her food,so rout leave them in the forest she's like well. Why don't we we et the kidsand then the resolution of that is. They are all right. How that instead ofyou at us, we just go to sleep forever and you never have to feed us. So theydo and then she goes away, and maybe they didn't include the story of thebook, because it was a bit shit, but so I mean we got to sleep forever. Isthat that's still death, though? Isn't it sat the impeity Yeah Yeah? Okay? Idon't know if it's not a really developed story or anything but yeah t.This is the the trick of the kind of a which the perkes is talking about. Soin her two thousand and eighteen thesis fantasy and feminism, Miriam Laffertyhers points out that wicket, which is are often described as lookingdistinctly Semitic, the prominent noses and Chins as well as bushy hair, andthat the traditional witches hat also bears some resemblance to the peakedcaps. That Jews were in the Middle Ages for what, but they were forced to wearthem to identify themselves, and she suggests that fairy tales like Hanseland gretel contribute to an anti semitic rhetoric about blood, thirstyJewish women praying on Christian Children Gosh. Is that thing I? No? Idon't mean anything any rhetoric that that I get no, no, the well the myththat Jews, a Christian children is, is definitely a thing, but the connectionto the witch which is really obvious is like something that hadn't reallyoccurred to me. She gives the examples of Severa snake from Harry Potter isfeet: Nose, a corded yeah and...

...specifically the wicked witch of theWest from the wizard of Oz count or left from a series of unfortunateevents so that stereotypes. Yes, one of this Christian prejudice, origin forthis G, O the witch and again yet it I as trying to eat the kids or not eatGillon Mow. So first, therefore argies that, because of this anti semetichistory, even positive portrayals of cones, with pointed hats such asTerracottas wit sisters could be upsetting for some readers, which yeahI mean, I'm not I'm, not, Jewish, I'm not really key into that. This seemsreally obvious in retrospect, but sort of when I read that I was like a haswas for thought about that one. That again, then, there's the discrepancybetween the content and the art work, where granny weather wat and now theold a pick with these big goses and the big Chins and everything so as much asPratchett trying to subvert these things somewhat. They are beingpackaged and sold in those pictures on the cover. So on the Furka of DIS, Worl,Prache and Simpson explain that Black Alice carry sinister echoes driftingacross from Earth of a hideous hair called black Annis who lived in a cavejust outside Leicestershire and blackness reportedly had a dark blueface and her nails were long, Sharp, talons, pracher six and say there canbe no doubt that she ate people naughty children, mostly, but good ones too. Ifthey stayed out late and that she would scratch them to death with their clawsuck their blood and hang out their skins to dry yeah. And they say ifmemories for Black Annis's mind had infected Black Alice. It's a wonderthat she didn't become far more wicked than she did so again. They're playingon this idea that I was taking issue with of like McGrath and Hur hearingthe echoes from the other world. They saying that Black Alice has actuallybeen infected by these fairy tales from the quantum residence, so that actuallymakes more sense now. Okay, well, it makes sense in terms of Hul, becausehere we're told he sees the visions. Like A do. You know, Bishop Infinite.The video game is that the Bluey one it's a greeny one. Maybe I mean this isnot a weird, but this is quite a big sort of cultural touchstone.Essentially, it's a Randan Dystocia and then you're a big Dovan. THAT'S NOTIMPORTANT YEA! No I've played this Okaihau, the third one which isn't theunder water. I ran the stoper, it's the in the sky. Weird Christian fundamentalis racist. America distoib point is in that there's a whole thing where thesoundtrack is like T, N, tis versions of modern pop songs, okay, and the ideais that one of the mechanics in the game is the Europan time rifs. So themusician has been opening timeri hearing music from another time andthen bringing them back into this time. So that's sort of what els doing andI'll take it to this effect, black an is, but I'm not sold on the Marad isalso feeling the cotton residents M. Okay, her like pendants and things area really starting to kick in. However, in trip of the Moon Hutu that thelegend of Black House is based on a popular and respected lady named AgnesScott, who lived a life of prayer in a cave and her story was then distortedby Protestant reformers. Yet that checks out yeah, probably probably nota whats the line. There can be no doubt that she ate people right, so no likely that there was an old babypeople told stories about the army. Hammer approach to witchcraft on also points out the similarity ofblack Annis's name to the Irish Goddess, a new, not sore how similar that is, which he says, made her one of the moststriking English personifications of the great goddess in her crown aspect.Actually, this links really well back into the names then, because blackelse's real name is alice to marriage. So to merge is an obviously wordmeanings to stay or delay, but it's also used in commerce more commonlythese days. It's essentially a fine for a boat staying in doctor. Long andagain maybe this is this- is one of my while there is, but like your kingthere's something there with like it's the toll, it's the price that thewitches have to pay, because that is black, Alice's whole point andcharacter of being in the book like. Why did you pit that word? I mean Ihope so I'd like it to be it's a nice coincidence. Let's put it that way.Yeah, it seems a bit round about, but like that name specifically to Merrageis like very specifically been picked yeah because in which is abroad, thefairy God mother, who leaves her one to migrate and everything her name isdesiderata, which means something that's needed or wanted, and that's avery deliberate naming of that character. So I do wonder if, like themarriage means something, but the only thing I can find is this vessel taxwhich kids really rout about? But so, if someone's got a better idea than me,please let me know because yeah she's Black Alices, the stand in for thewitch who's gone to power hungry which again plays into the border themes ofthe book, because you've got the duke who says that rich magic rules, magic,destroys and granny, who says magics there to be ruled not for broiling. Sothere's something going on there so late. So is that by emphasizing thatthe witches must assure the temptation to use their power to put themselves ina superior social position. PRATE proposes a fundamentally libertarianpolitical egeneto s reflected throughout the series. What do youthink of that else, because this is something that were e sort of going torevisit with which is abroad, the sort of philosophy I think grandy weatherwaxeses there, the the witches because...

...they're sort of looking after everyonethere there in the community they're helping everyone, but at the same timethey're sort of saying that everyone has to do it for themselves. So it'sthe weird mesh up between near Liberalism, socialism, viberts yeah,because if we think about this going back to equal rights, like you know, isthis a feminist text? And I think it's Penny Hill has sort of criticized someof the praising of patchet that, like a because he wrote a female wizard he's.Therefore, Fenacre D, I think Eagle rites is quite a farness text, but theidea that wall is preche actually portraying a a feminist philosophy, oris it just or esquint did it by herself? And she was the self made woman andthings which great granny, weatherwax and natty og and the witches have power,because they are the the individuals and especially well see in all. No, Iwas going to say we'll see in which is a broad, but especially in weirdsisters like Brady wether ax is the last sane man or the last same woman.You know that trop yeah yeah the idea that you know you're the only one whocan see the truth because you're special, but that bothered me yeah. Ithink it comes back to our discussion of like there's. No, what's the word, there's no flow in theworld building. It doesn't match up and he's doing different things indifferent books. We're talking about so maybe okay. Yes, I guess s could beconstrued as a EMINIS, because she's like a fuck, you guys will take takingit away from the comparison with equal rights and the Feminie Zang or justlike. What do you think of the philosophy that is happening in weirdsisters? Like is a thing? It's feminist, it's unless you think about as like. Ohyes, sisters doing it for themselves, but they're doing what Satan does inessence, they are becoming the powerful people who are manipulating aneverything rather than fixing anything or changing anything for the better.They just like, oh we'll, do it yeah, that's the tension. I'm sort of gettingat is that they are these community people who care about everyone, but atthe same time they help people because they look down on people right. Thisidea that witches are above everyone else, they help people because theythink people are to. They can't help themselves yeah, because they're noteducated enough and they're too superstitious, and- and I guess thenhe's dealing with that tension of- can people help themselves if they've gotthat superstition and they need someone else to jump in yeah again, it is in akind of patronizing way quite off her, but like or any weather works anywhereyeah. I like Goniwe the wax as well, but this is becoming a parent on this.I guess this is like at least my fourth three read of the entire series, and Iam noticing that that, like, I think, precise, progressive, liberal sort ofperson but like it is it libertarian individuals m rather than I guess,modern, progressive thing and we sort of fucked about this in the unseeingacademicals episode talking about how the gender thing is sort of this flip,it's not really looking at like well, my problem with the integrating all theraces in term Walpole and the Goblins and thing is that people are only gableif they provide something if they are productive members of the watch and aliberalism right yeah, whereas I mean greaty weather ax, isn't doing that.She's like this is a conversation for which is a broad where she's saying hecan't treat people as objects, you have to treat them as people in and ofthemselves. So it's not quite this near liberalist, everyone out for themselves,then, but she is special because she knows more and she knows better and M.I guess okay I'll come back to whatever, which is a broad, but in this one itreally did seem like she was just treating people as objects that shecould be around on a chest port. It didn't seem like she actually wasbeyond like the sisters. It didn't ow a coven. Rather it didn't seem like shewas genuinely invested in like humanity m. In an interview with the book criticElizabeth, you preter admits that granny weatherwax often speaks for him.This is praches philosophy as well. This sort of Libertarian I go andanother thing we talked about in dancing academical things is equal,writes revolutionary in the fantasy genre for having female characters formale wizards yea. So I discovered a book by a Tethera called Tansy RenoRoberts called projects within an authorized essays on female charactersof the discord from two thousand and eighteen and in that book she sheactually really doesn't like equal right. She says it is, but I think shesays it's one of the worst or or the most boring boring. She wasdisappointed it because she saved it up as like one of the last one. She readand then she found it was less sophisticated than the later books, butshe said that upon rereading the series, because this book is sort of her goingthrough and rereading the series and just recording her thoughts about itright and she yea. So she loves weird sisters like everyone who's, not your.I actually, I think, she's specifically talking about which is a broad, but shetalks about which is abroad and and wed sisters. She notices that these arefantasy novels by a best selling male author, in which all the importantcharacters are women, and that this you know, is a rarity that hadn't happenedbefore and yeah. I can't really think of a examples. The one that jumped inmy mind is to Morrai, who is, of course, a woman and is writing her first, theAlanna series around the same time as this does that we wins the other onethat, as we discussed in the equal rights thing, patchet came well beforeshe started Friday from Mo protagenes. So, even if you want to include femalefantasy authors like, I can't really think of a best selling fantasy series,where women are prominent characters, even in Dharrig, which is the prominentfantasy series. After Pratchett Bro drops off like the main Harry destitude,you have one female character of Note:...

Yeah a yeah to en one half. If you wantto continny who's the special see. Can I go my goal, but does she do anythingthere with the granny weather wax of that world? I mean, if we're doing likeFACCI move casting. I do pictures ranny weatherwax as minever may is met yeah.Maybe Smith Played Mgongo, which I mean that's kind of cheating, but also likethat's exactly it. I also, I think, Freddy Weather Ack has clearly inspiredthe characterization of macgonigal a yeah. I think you're right so yet forhis time, crassin is very revolutionary, but we talked about in dancingacademicals in the first episode that he is a white guy in a fedora. He isfamous for being that dude, so sort of rereading them. Now in today's conduct,I don't think their conservative, I'm not concerned about them or anything,but these things are jumping out at me that granny weather axes philosophy isvery libertarian and it is Chaviniac, I think, is the worst, especially when weget to the end of which is a broad. I mean she essentially goes into thekingdom and says I need to say everything right, because these nativesdon't know how to do it themselves, sort of thing which is well intentioned,but you know different contexts. So that's why I wanted to bring that up. Imean obviously authors right characters who they don't agree with, but projectsaying that Granny Wethera is sort of his favorite character. That is themouth piece for his ideology and his philosophy and things Captain Villaargies. However, the proced not only presents a positive vision of femaleaging through his old witches, but also uses these characters to expand on anethics about the duties. Society and individuals have towards the rest ofthe Earth, exploiting the a restraint or Rassalin and impatience of his earlywiches, especially granny, to lash out against stupidity, foolishness or shortsightedness, and defend the rights and the dignity of everyday people. Hisanger is never blind. It is tempered by compassion of mercy and, above all,control in projets works and is ethical, since it is attached to a sense ofresponsibility towards those who need help, so she at least is taking thislibertarian thing. A saying yes, granny is this last same woman person who'sabove everyone else, but she's employing it to. I don't want to saysocialist, but the idea that she is I mean, is a little kind of sending thestupid, the Fulish, the short sighted. But the idea that she feels like hermoral responsibility, is toward the rest of the earth. Yeah. Okay, so it'scomplex it because then it's witches are often representatives they're outto get those folks rig they're corrupting the society yeah, whereashere she's, trying to yeah support them and put them back together. It's thegoody, Blake and Harry Gill, joag, N, O or mass is an. I definitely do becauseI do her goody Blake hurried you off in was what I talked about this in thelyrical ballads, one of which is called Goody, Blake and Harry Gill, and thestory line very briefly is goody. Blake is a poor woman, essentially a favoritelady who lives near Harry Gill, who's, a pretty okay, dude, rich farmer he'sfine and she's taking sticks out of his hedge to build her fire because she'sgoing to freeze to death and then Harry, but Harry you'll find her and it's likeyou're, an awful woman, you witch- and so she says oh you'll be cold foreverand then he can't get on and like on the surface. It's about. You know thiswitch lady curses this dude and heats offers forever, but really it's aboutsociety's representation of women as witches and like you know, if you putthem on the sidelines of society, are they going to be miserable and have areally awful time? So maybe we should help them, so it's worth worth alsocombating that kind of. Yet the idea of what a witch is- and perhaps it's notsuper productive and I guess Pratchett doing the same sort of thing and thenhe represents him is actually helping society. But we will revisit this inwhich is a broce going to revisit a lot of things in which, as a board yeah, Ido think I love all the DISA books, which is a broad and wid sisters, arethe two most closely knit ones that are sort of dealing with the same ideas andyet will rivers the idea of Cultural Chovan and things next episode. Allright. I get so they have a bit of a vegetarian round here now because, asI'm noticing like yeah, I'm a couple O books ahead. I've just finished readingwoods and Mites there's a lot of vegetarian stuff shown up in thesebooks, which I was not ready for yeah a lot of a a lot of more meat kind ofthings in which is abroad. But then vegetarian follow up and Mods, ladies,which will talk about when we get to those books, because we had grannyweather wax in equal right says that the reason city people are always wearEd. is they don't eat natural food? Here we have a direct engagement withvegetarianism with the ghosts and things so as bother observes in thepocket essential tarry project. Traditional Magic is re interpreted inwe sisters through both projects, which is having to improvise with theirequipment and MARATS, far vegetarian ethics, which are inspired by hermental goody Weber. who was against all unnecessary cruelty? And yes, so, whenthey're, when they are improvising with the different materials, they can use.Macora things magrane grainy weatherwax, that vegetable protein is a perfectlyacceptable substitute for the eye of Newton that the frogs and things duringthe Cofens, so you in Cratchit was making fun of that. But was he beinglike this? Do this? No? No, I think he's making fun of it, because this ispart of granting wether waxes. I Guess Conservatives and the Libertarians iswe're talking about. Is that she's, like she's kind of sending to MAG rat,then Magaret's, this new age thing and she's into vegetarianisms as silly, andthey should use the newts and things because it doesn't matter. I think it'sa more of a nuance street mom in laws...

...and, ladies, which is a bit more onMagat side. That book I'm, but here yeah it's she's, young and naive and istrying to do all these silly things and granny weather Max is telling her. Youknow the proper ways to do things or part of granny by the wakes of thething. Is You don't have to use the right material, so she doesn't have aproblem with using uncommissioned materials, but the fact that it'svegetarian or something she's, looking down a nose at it which to me suggest proces, disapprovaland mgrate, so he's definitely more readily identified with granny weatherwaxes. He said and nanny og yeah, because there's also the comment aboutabout how an adult mail carries up to five pounds, underdeck and red meat andhis in Testin at all times. I thought that was funny. Well, that comes fromMagre who it says her, informative lectures on nutrition have been need tocause whole families to fight in the cellar until she went away so you'relaughing. Now I mean this has been played for she's the annoying naggievacant. Right that I I I guess I guess I'm all laughing- that like yeah,that's totally true. Well, it's actually a reference to asimilar quote by the detective Billy Rosewood played by Judge Reinhold, Ione thousand nine hundred and eighty four Eddie Murphy, film, Beverly HillsCop. I mean it's a general thing anyway, but it's sort of made famous inthat movie and he's the good hearted bumbling by the book cop who befriendsbevys, call, will breaking ax or folly so sort of a continuation of thatstereotype that he's simple and naive and mislead and o Miss Lid bit out oftouch yeah. Okay, the l space annotators also comment. The mgrateclaim is also stereotypical propaganda that radical vegetarians like to quotein order to burst people out and get them to stop eating meat, whilepointing out that, of course, the average vegetarian has about fivepounds of undigested vegetable matter in their intestines as well, so a bitof editorializing going on there from the annotators and indeed, according toPratchett, presumably via personal correspondence with the annotators likeI couldn't find out a sauce for it. He says he got the quote from some way out:Vegetarian stuff, he'd read before he'd, even seen Belly Hills Cup, which madehim feel ill for days. So this propaganda is being effective on him,but then he's Lamperne and making fun of it in right, like McGrath the but ofthat joke the Rasmer to sympathize with the people who are running away fromher vegetarian metters, and we sympathize with the grat. I mean Isympathize with my grant so spoiler for one of the things I like the truethings I like about, which is a broad next episode, but my Grat is one ofthem. I think the first few times I read through these I'm like yeah,probably weather ax, is the coolest and macgrath, and I didn't really get herat this time through the witches series, I'm really picking up what Mygraputting down. I like her a lot- and I have read you- know some reviews andsome cricis m stuff. That says well. Migratin meant to be the author.Arrogate right. You're meant to sympathize with her because you're thenew person in this society or whatever, but then you are, the reader has beencondescended to by Grady weatherwax. They are telling her how you should be,and the implication is that as Magra develops, she becomes more like anyweatherwax in win sisters. There's also the scene where the dead king who's aghost, enters the castle kitchen and sees all the ghosts of all the otheranimals that have been killed there. It says it was full of ghosts, but theyweren't human. They were stags, they were bullocks, they were rabbits andpheasants and partridges and sheep and pigs. There were even some round bloodythings that looked unpleasantly like the gross of Oysters. They were packedso tightly, then in fact they merged and mingled turning the kitchen into asilent, just like nightmare of teeth and fur, and horns aften and misty. SoI guess we were strongly to Dang things. I liked about this book. As at thestart, I should have biked this. I really like the scene. I think this isa really cool idea and you've sort of been picking up on, like you wanted totalk about some of the animal ethics things with the borrowing and stuff youhave to a yes, yes, I can not, because it's traditionally thought underChristianity, that the reason why non human animals don't have ghostesbecause they don't have souls right. Our parents have souls so just implicitin this. What is essentially a joke in this book is the idea that, in the diskworld non human animals have salts, they are on particul with human beings,and Barante has a reaction similar to projects to the thing about the redmeat and the stamach of wishing that he still had a real stomach so that hecould stick his fingers down his throat for forty years and bring up everything.He's eaten purchase playing on this reaction that he had to this vegetarianpropagea, but it's being played for comedy, and I think it's more like hisvarents revolted out of disgust rather than empathy like apathy. I thinkthat's him. I oh gosh. I wish I could bring everything up because he's notdiscussed by the ghost because they just goes to all the animals they'rejust hanging around. I think he's disgusting because he realize is whythey're there and that freaks him out yeah, but I don't think he feels badfor having done that. I just I think he feels like confronted by them stillbeing alive like the problem is not that he ate meat. The problem is thatthe animals he ate are there. I mean they're, both yeah yeah, I mean at theend of the day it's just a joke and I'm over thinking it way too much, but thisvegetarian thread does get developed further across the next two novels. Atleast it had me thinking as well about the the horses eating each other joke.I feel like this was practial trying to take a different take on it, but a playdidn't get very far with it. Then there's also a weird line later abouthow, through all these ghosts, the Cook anies assistants are wandering aroundquite unconcernedly, making vegetarian...

...sesters, and I don't know why they makea vegetarian sausages there. Ah, because isn't the trick that they'remaking non vegetarian sausages? That's why all the GOS are in the kitchenunless they go to haunting the cooks now well so in Lords and ladies becausemgrate Queen Right in Lords and ladies, she takes over the castle and makes thecook start cooking vegetarian meals, yeah, but that hasn't happened yet okay,so I the yeah, I don't know what's going on with this line, I mean I elogical thing: is that yeah they're being haunted and that's why? Butotherwise it doesn't make any sense. No, so I'm not sure what's doing there anobviously it jumped out to me where I'm you know looking for these vegetarianthings, but it does seem inconsistent with the joke or the picture of theghosts in the room that immediately precedes it. So I'm not quite sure whatit's doing there, which brings us to ghosts so yeah later in the in weirdsisters. People complain to well well your I'm Goin to say Hul yeah well well.Well, it's mean to be well but yeah, it's not so letter and wid sisters.People can plain to fell about all the ghosts in this place to which heresponds. Why? I like ghosts, which is very shit. I feel like that's exactlywhat Shakespeare would have said right, because there's lots of girts inShakespeare, most famously, of course, in hamlet and Macbeth and Chili CaesarYeah, although maybe in Macbeth, is bank or like a psychological thing, asopposed to an a a nurse yeah. Well I mean, as in Hamlet, is, is King Hamlet,a psychological thing, or a great I mean maybe, but in an sort of the otherplace that go through a lot more ghostly. I think Macbeth, the mostambiguous, but there's goes everywhere else is the first of Shakespeare's manya gosiers in the fourth of his historical plays in Richard, the third,where the ghosts of the Duke of Clarence and his brother, Richardsmurder victims appear to them in their dreams which have vence dreams again.So are the actual apparition like as layers shakespeare. This is this is anoriginal. It's not uncommon. In Oh plays so yes, seven, because I canmember in from four a D. fifty eight bas begins with the ghost of TSE's,inciting his son to revenge. The rums inflicted on him by his brother andmore contemporaneously to Shakespeare. You Have Thomas Kids, Spanish tragedy,Roun an fin ten, a d ninety which opens with the ghost of the Spanish nobleman,who begins to play with the Silili and his promised death by the end. So thisis a convention right, revenge, ghosts, yeah. Nevertheless, the abundance ofGorston Shakespeare or something critics appear to be fixated parent.There are multiple books and articles called Gossin, Shakespeare andShakespeare in the supernatural, almost all of which are completely useless.I've read four different books about, or skim through, four different booksabout Shakespeare and suit, a national elements from I think, going back tolike the eighteen, hundreds and things. None of them are particularlyinsightful as I'm discovering about weird sisters, adjacent scholarship. Iwas thinking about this the other day and I was like maybe it's just becausethere's not all that much there Shakespeare's, just like we ever soalso so I'm about to talk about a book from one thousand nine hundred and sixby F Mormon, which is yea one thousand nine hundred and six. So that's over ahundred years ago, so I guess at the time. Maybe it was in form it. But nowit's just like sort of saying things that are just invented in the cultureyeah, but Mormon suggests that in the plays of Shakespeare's predecessors,the ghost was a mere machine of voice mouthing vengeance and that underShakespeare became endowed with personality. He's Co Yeah. Well, hegoes under quote J Simmons on eight hundred and eighty four book,Shakespere's predecessors in the English drama, who describedShakespeare's ghost as no longer a phantom roaming in the code, but aspirit of like intellectual substance, a parcel of the universe in which allactors live and move and have their being, which is interesting becauseShakespeare's first editor and biographer the eighteenth century,English poet, Lariat, Nicholas Rowe, claimed that Shakespeare's own topperformance was, as the ghost in his own hamlet, thankel yeah. So this iswhen, when we're talking about pressure, not really going deep, I do think thisis a good commentary and a good job at Shakespeare. Here cinth ghosts. I didwant to go sort of more into the ghost stuff when, when I was reading the bookand start of putting their notes together, one of the threads I wantedto follow more than the witch in the history of Mex stuff. Was this Ghosstudy like I like the treatment of ghost in with this, is the idea thathe's trapped in the castle and he has to pick up the brook and move itsomewhere. So we can go away. I thought that was really interesting and I sortof wanted him to do more of that. But when I looked into it- and I didn'treally find anything to sort of go down to the ghost thing, but so there you go.That's Shakespeare, Gorst! Thank you, O Ocou. Last topic, I talk about, isMiris, which we wur definitely go into a lot of detail about next episode onwhich is a broad. But while watching the playing weird sisters, grandyweatherwax says this is art holding a mirror up to life. That's whyeverything is exactly the wrong way around which this is project. Coming upwith the idea of for weird sisters in real time, that's what's going on there,but of course it's also a reference to hamlet yeah, where in the Apono princetells the DUB actors. Do you want to do you want to do the the code about youyou're much better at the Shakespeare, quoting? So this is the thing about howwhat in the mirrors set the action to the word. The word to the action withthis special observance that you over step, not the modesty of nature foranything, so I done is from the purpose of playing whose end, both at the firstand now was and is to hold, as twere mirror up to nature, to show virtue.Her feature scorn her own image, ind,...

...the very age and body of the time, hisform and pressure. So let that's a a little actual hamlet detail, but ofcourse, your back to wices. You have nanny Arletta, Rearrangin, ard, it'swhat name. It holds a mirror up to life so to twice now we have anotherreference to Shakespeare without Shakespeare or her having writtenhamlet within the disked again. So this a what's the name I hadn't picked up onthat yeah. She is referencing. How like right e there is- actually I wascomplaining about you know is: Is Marat picking up the contemn resonance likehills? Well, there is something in laws and ladies grandy weather ax is able topick up the infinite worlds of the other granny weather waxes, the quantumweather waxes are probably not my grath, but the problem. I would be fun withthis if it was one or the other. If it was, there is the quantum whereresidents and the just picking up these references, but once you put Hellinthere to be the Shakespeare Sorgar, you need him to have written hamlet formany Octo, then reference how like ye to be a quantum residence if it's justa go pani, if it's just Shakespeare, writing Shakespeare and plays in twolots, yeah or Stevens. That's the end of the the major topics I do have themiscellaneous section. If we just want to which I have decided is now calledMiss World Yeah. I was pretty on waiting weeks to drop that one ever do.I come up with out like last night or will now be known as miser yeah. Sosome things just I noticed that didn't fit in anywhere else. Nanny og hasfifteen grown up. Children and a numeral grandchildren are greatgrandchildren, which means that she has an eighth son and I think Sharnak, theat son of MANIOC, so short ogs at some, would have a wizard for A. I think Imight be getting that math wrong, but whether or not it shorn or not t e,when, when it said Yeah Nanny og has fifteen children like somewhere inthere is a whizzer she's, not a wizard, but no because itdoesn't matter if she's, a wizard or not there just has to be her. Eight sonhas to have an e some, so yeah potential for a wizard in the oldfamily. You have the section where it says a kingdom is made up of all sortsof things. Ideas, loyalty is memories, it all sort of exist together and thenall these things create some kind of life like a living idea, made up ofeverything that's alive and what they're thinking and what people beforethem thought- and this reminded me of in the Gal right episode. We weretalking about the Austin Scott Card book, seven son, the way BenjaminFranklin creates Americans. This is sort of a right o. He does that nothingto say about J. Just this section reminded me of that idea in that book.The other players that villanis witches there's the crucible yeah, the obviousone- and I didn't really- I don't really like the critical. I don't like.I really O that much. I don't know whether I like the crucible or not, butI know I don't like death of the salesmen right. Nobody likes death, anI say. No, I have to freaking teach it to some hound. Tell me you, like theCriswell, tell me about the CRISIM. I just find it interesting, particularlybecause you're, comparing it to your of wonders currently in the involved,silves thing yea a doing that is interesting. Chrisianity own is violentand uncomfortable. I mean I don't like death of selves men, because it's it'shard being an old white guy the play but and then so to go to the crucible.It's like yeah go crofter yeah, where it's like. Well, actually, women arewhich is, but they are bitches. I sort of it's that the war were thento take away from. I guess that's the moral of it I enjoy the play, though Ifind it interesting to read, but do I yeah yeah? I mean I thought it was fineas a play, but when I'm like thinking about it, I'm like what am I gettingout of this play but yeah. I didn't really find any connection to weirdsisters to go down with that which is kind of strange. If you're going towrite a book about plays and witches do not really jump on the crucible. Iguess it's a superstition thing. Oh maybe he just was like now. This is tooopous, then he did make Beth yeah but Richard. The third is by that. Whenwe're talking about shaping history, Ye pater told me thing about the tempest.If you want to hear it, I do it's not relevant to the podcast, but you knowCaliban says I should get the island because my cigarettes, my moe, made ityou know, so I should get it and anyone who agrees with Caliban, which is a lotof people, because we didn't sympathize with him. This is strikes' tricky wayof tricking. Everyone into sympathizing, with Mary Queen of Scotts Osmar, queenof Scott stood by right, have been queen of England through her mother'sline, although he's relevant to the podcast, because the fool is how an himhe's kind of Colbaton that you know he scurries around and he's treated backso yeah, maybe he is but he's he inherits the kingdom through his motherM- A U which also in the I think we skipped over it in the Quenchin,because everyone thought she was a witch. Well, I don't know enough aboutthat to go off about it here, but if you ever ran you can go through it orjust we can leave a non yeah and I'm so a okay, because the other thing I thinkwe skipped over it in the Macbeth history stuff, but part of bankersclaim to the throne in the history stuff is also through his mother yeah.There is something going on about the matronal line through weird sisters andthrough Shakespeare stuff as well yeah, so he's one for you or in the fur corof Dis word. It says there are practical reasons too. If you believethat a spell will only work. If you wear your robes and you use the rightcolored ink on the right kind of parture Mobei to that kind of incenseon the right day of the week, you will...

...be helpless in an emergency. If anemergency arises, then you don't have all a power Penali at hand. The threelung for riches once needed to invoke a demon, but as they were in any OGG'swash house at the time, Magra protested. Oh, but you can't not here, you need acaldron and a magic sword and an Octoraro and spicers and all sorts ofstuff and granny and any exchange glances. It's not her fault saidGrannie, it's all then grimmers she was brought. She turned to my grat. Youdon't need none of that. She said you need hedone. She looked around theancient washroom you just use, whatever you've got, she said, and this sort ofgoes back to practical and yeah, knowing the methods or knowing why itworks or whatever. Yes do you have anything to say about that? I thinkthis again goes. All the way back to a lot of magic is just superstition. Yougo through. You know a baby in a well, and that makes sure cow produce moremilk, but actually it's all headon. You know it's understanding the word andhow it works. You don't just have blind faith in some weird stuff thatsomeone's told you which these grimmers meant to be Grimmi, yeah grimase Gras,because I was sort of like if we got back to last episodes. I wasinterpreting equal writes as the wizards of the ones who are researchingand trying to understand magic on a theoretical level, whereas the witchesjust now why it works. What to do to make it work. But here we've got yoursort of interpretation that you had where migrates the standing for thevisits who read the books and have the method, but don't actually understandmagic or, as yea many understand magic, so they can improvise the bring inwords worth propaganda once more uh because he's out in the natural worldand he's going. Oh, I feel God in all things, and I feel it in me and he'sgetting all like O in nature, and I think it's a kind of the same thingwith magic like you can go out there and go yes. This is a tree or whatever,but you kind of got to stand on the cliff top and just let it kind of flowthrough. I think that's what the other witches are at are talking about yeah,but is thought that was interesting in the last time we saw this dividebetween the prepair and the understanding between wizards and whichis, whereas now we have it within which, as themselves yeah, that's it. This iswhy it's in the miscel section, because I don't have a point about it- it'sjust there. I just have words worth we talked about references, how thisbook is in front of, because it's just waiting references to us, but there's areference that I do not get, and this sort of comes into like in all thattheory of human stuff that was reading. They were saying that intertexturehuman, you don't have to know the original Shakespeare lant like you, canrecognize the formula of a joke or recognize when something is a referenceand still find it funny because of the construction and things. So this is anexample of a bit where I'm recognizing that this is a reference. It's meant tobe triggering the recognition of me that I don't know what that recognitionis so there for I'm not finding it funny. So here's a bit about thestrawberry birthmark, they say a strawberry birth marks, one of thosethings you've got to have. If you're a prince coming to claim your kingdom,that's so everyone will know. Of course I don't know how they know it's astrawberry. So, like obviously, I understand the context here that thereis a story somewhere where a king is recognized by their birth mark. I or ishe or are they just like doing that or you know, in order to be a prince,you've got to have the thing. Whatever the thing is, you got to have thedashing hair. Well, I thought no! No! No! I think it's like the mark of likeyou're the king yeah, the like being born with the birth mark or having somekind of insignia on you. That proves that you're, the rightful and that is afantasy troop. So I get that I understand yeah but the specificity ofa story like if it just said you have to have a birth mark. That's how youknow your kid, I'm wondering if the strove thing's just a joke on thespecificity of the birth mark. Well, no, it has to be a reference because thenlike, why would you put strawberry in their strawberries and see attractinjust going? Oh you've got to have that birth Ma in a strawberry, the Cocacola,the nats completely different jerk formulation, the strawberries there totrigger a reference. Have you read the one in future king? Is it a referenceto that when I was a child? I don't remember it, but I couldn't findanything. So I don't know what that is. If anyone does please let me know, I'vesaid it up. Now, I'm seeing academic as Pod at g milcom could get on seeingacademic as of g mail. That was taken. So Don members do, if you send it today,so that's unseeing academical spot that you modom or one Ridan. If you agree,it's a joke or if you know where it's from or if you know what the story isall about, any any favorite jokes, but Ya said them at the start. Yeah, Ithink I said my favorite joke was the first line, and that's it. The onlyother one I've got written down is like that, the analog of as you like. It wasplease yourself, but you already proud that. So that's all I got no favoritetroke, as we didn't find this book very funny. I'm still like dealing withwhether or not they were testpans but didn't, look like it is funny or not.So tell me about that one. I think it's meant to be like a joker lesbians, butdidn't look like it ye it's not funny then, but then the festins part of itmade it made me laugh because I'm like Oh, yes, that's beings, but in a anywho's going to win season to of drag race, UK, oh no, they just did thesnachad where they have to do celebrity personations. That was the last episodeand he did a while he's opening joke of when heintroduced wanset. His joke was I'm a Thespian lesbian and he was put in thebottom and have to lip sink for his life. So I'm going to look in not funnynot funny. All right. I talk to some lesbians. I'm like were this funny,though, like okay. Well, let's be approved and wiclithat's all for this episode ofunseen academicals tell be another one...

...along in a month, but if you can't waituntil then you can sign up to patronage and get all the episodes of full monthin advance, along with any bernus episodes or specials that and I'm doing,if you're after more of US alice harsher on podcast of the Devil's Party,which traces the development of the satanic era throughout romantic andGothic literature thinks to a bit o the fee for today's show, along with thefully reference to foot now, the transcript should be available in theepisode description, thanks for listening and stay changed for someamusing attics. Interestingly, the original Crick Hillof Scotland is spelled crony kill, which I'm sad to report is not the nameof a death. My Wand, chronic kills, is the name of a trichee.Okay, so vill learn something, and I want to take this opportunity topoint out the irony of law, lister's name and that she is lawless, yeah,yeah, she's, defying the natural outer. Now you don't like that, thins she'sfrom New Zealand, so maybe she is related in a prince pers hay back, alsogive me no. You bery dropped out yeah right well. What I was I was makingjokes about seeing a way, a princess, and you were just staring at me deadPan and I'm like, Oh God, Bummer- that hard huh you to just cut this and that a L. No I'm saying that thelaw, as is the last name of Lucy, was who paid Zena Warrior Princess. So inmy head cannon they are related till God fantom sure I'm sure o the Non Zena.One would hear this and go. Oh, my God. We made jokes about how Terry Prancerwas dead and couldn't answer the telephone in the first episode it gets low of the bar has been said yeah, so the only real discrepancy inthe story day is that Apparently Bart Mc Barn Pick Baron.

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