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1 – Unseen Academicals

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Episode 1 of Unseen Academicals, discussing our titular Discworld novel, Unseen Academicals (2009), and using it to discuss Terry Pratchett's critical and academic reception, football/soccer, Academics, Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Eddie McGuire, fashion, gender expression, RuPaul's Drag Race, the racial implications of orcs and their origins in J. R. R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and Dungeons and Dragons, creation, corruption and definitely not psychoanalysis!

Referenced transcripts: independentresearcher.academia.edu/JoshuaBulleid/Podcasts  

Contact: unseenacademicalspod@gmail.com 

Alice's other podcast, Of the Devil's Party: https://ofthedevilsparty.sounder.fm/ 

Support: patreon.com/doctorprometheuspod  

Hey thanks for listening to youranseingACDEM whols, just a heads up that, as with a lot of podcast the son qualityon this first episode is suboptimal. We recorded the first half in alseskitchen and it's far ECOY and there's a lot of birds in the background andthings, and then we ended up rerecording the second half, but therewere issues with the audio and I ended up having to stitch it together fromlike two different backup recordings, the so quality on the next couple.Episodes, including Nega rigts. One that's at the moment, which is actuallystill taken from a backup recording, is a lot better and we'll have that sortefout soon, but just a heads up the day, I'm aware and the rest of the pprssohopefully will sound a lot better anyway, I'm it the show Yei'm, Josh andAlice and really unseen acadefical. I don't know if we should do that. At thesame time, maybe I'll just say about iself kind of, I think what I'm doingthis ubconsciously Isis ripping off for a wild stiens from the bill and TedMovies. We seen bonted of the band but Sak the well yeah ye time machine Ye,thees, there's a tas like a Tub, its afimberit's, a dotor who yeahoay butythey, then they're like I buill and itern. We are wild, stalions and sick.So I think that's what I'm going for ther, but we haven't othing. We can. Wecan try it again, we'll get better ote journey of the Pocke wit difinitely.Keeping this one now noswell. I was Gong to say who are we but I'm Joshnyer else? We just did that bit. So what are we? We area, dustcoted podcast,that has to be ASETTRUBE. We aresing academicals- and this is a DISPOpodcast of which there are many just got podcast were discovered becausewhen we first came up with the idea of doing this, I think they were two and ahalf and we checked and there were thirty thet people an started up duringthe welk down here, a d I think it wasslawladefore. It was November W thusand and nineteen to February two thousandand twenty, like twenty Tis quole pogcas started. I haven't checked backin to see how Mane exponentials hoping they would just all Peter out at somepoint but we'll see, and I'm not too worried, because I believe at one pointill, subcribe to seven different recolls gradegrads, free caps that alljust when I wer Sayng episode. So it's fine, so yeswe're going to be recappingor not recapping, we're going to be on liket analyzing. The any three daysdoing. RESEARH G PI got a lot to say about ox coming up, but YEIT's Whearthy, I'm seein theacademicals, because a you can't see us, as is a orditory media and be we weare,both academics or aspiring academics Alice. When you tell the people who areand what you do, I I am an aspiring epidemic. I will. When I gow up, I willbe a doctor in literature. I'm a PhD student and IAM, studying the influenceof Satan from Mot preadis lost on Romantic SOTENIC Curat and trying todefine a new heroic archetype. That's what I'm doing that sounds way. Coolthe Mine Josh is already adopted that well, I'm not! I don't think I am yet,but I will be by the time other people are hearing this, probably hopefullylers. Something really goes wrong. Yes, I I just finished my writing, my Phthesis, which was on the animal ethics and vegetanitisman science fiction, butof overlacped with the romantic stuff going into Aryshelan things, but that'snot important for this podcast. So we we're going to be trying to take an anacademic angle which isn't to say we're going to be fudy about it. Just I'vespent three days researching the history of Olk. So, let's, let's to dowith the content, I guess we I am focusing on academic content but sortof the approach we take of so o'm doing intense research on these sort ofthings, and hopefully we can add something to the conversation that waythese aren't going to be finished, thoughts or explorations. I think othey never are, but this is sort of an academic paper in process reallywithout I, I don't plan on making anything out of this and thenpublishing afgterwards. This is an excuse for me to do all the researchand then put it ap there without were fining t, and I have to edit it yeah and Itis the disclaimer that these arenot fully finished, formulated, thoughts that the sort of works inprocess so that who we are and what we're going to be doing. What we're notgoing to be doing is going through all of the references and pointing out allthe connections and things that's already done on the DISWOB Wickithere's like four of them, and I think it's Omeone that is called DisclodRooki, we're not going to be on that we're going to be using those lists dand looking at things that Leeking are interesting and trying to take themfurther in fol connections. But the books aren't a puzzle for RestaurantRavel. So from there, when we talk a bit about our history with the diskword series, starting with you Alice, I read them in high school. I read themost fantasy books. I, how long girls high school its many nfive, not many ne many many enough of that. My friends are nowapprocriating on purpose and have done...

...so multiple time, so that's veryditrangina bultiple incidentalpio the same people, but that were a number ofinstances of accidental procration and I think, like Jats Fook, is kind ofabout yeah topic, no read them in high school, but as fantasy, and I weve gotsome of the jokes and knew they were kind of funny and Quirty, an sarcastticand Folt F Punis, but most of it was just straight over my head. Sorereading them has been a fun experience. It's like wer watchingShrek, but on a much bigger ban I mean I like Shret, but yeah iscod is a lotbetter as the best. What your history ith thisgut, I'm Josh! Yes, I think Iony Biga discate fan ofthe two of us. I Hade a cat named Praccet so that that's my trunk cardreally, but both ad animals com, shally bersodoe yeah. Ladies Lady Shelly, Oh,I did not know that ithou she was just La. I tolk you, this water, yeah wow,okay, because nick wanted to call her shoeler and I said no, no, no it'shelly. So the compromise was Sa Lady Shelly bcause, so I dot know yeah. Yes, so, and I have read through theentire series multihe times, I think two two times at least except for thelast fewyear and and three times fom most of them, but I sort of admadedicated from from a distance. I mean, though, and looking at this with thispractic convention, things a on never di or don't really want to go to thingslike that, so my fandom has been personal and isolated and ti like mostthings, alsoas tell me about people earlierjudgen by the the episode title and seeing Academicals, which is also thetitle of the show man nows. Another thing we're going to be doing so tdifferently. I guess, is rather than sturing at the style of the series andgoing through them chronologically we're going to be examining the booksIni sort of He. The series within the series theyre there, so I think, werethe plan is to start with the witcher series and then do the death series,the Misen series and finish with the watch and the anmor Fox series. But thesort of miscellaneous ones strewng about it and then where we feel like,but we're going to be starting with the book, I'm Seeng academicals itself. Now,why are WEU starting with onseeing academicals? Well, because Theca Mamethe show after? But it's maybe a strange place to start, because I don'tthink this is one of Terro cratchits best disclab evel. So would you agreewith that? Elul agree with that Yoi mean I have a rankl. If quare, I thinkit is my fourth or fifth least Faof Disclo book, although I haven't done abit of research, maybe maybe that might bump EP, maybe well ioly like oneposition, I'm ught put it above. He Australian, im e was contnant masscomtion or whatever it's called, but we'll see when we get to that in likefive years thee years. I think I did the match good to the end of the wizardseries an two years. Maybe if we do one of these a month which is ambitious, but it is, I think it's agood overview of the series for a number of reasons. One of the reasonswhy it's not one of these pesciis- that's kind of voat, it's kind ofdiscrobed by numbers, so sort of gets a good e eview of where the series endsup towards the end. I this is one of the later books. Thirty seven haveforty one or forty two. I think it is somthing I's forty FIV SASO, sixhundred pages, long yeah they get longer, which is how fantasy authorswork and to my Shu En, and it also highlights some of the issues I havewith the later disquar novels or with overall discor novels, that we can sortof explore here and get a good idea of where the series Goe so that when we goback to some of the earlier books, we can know where we're going and thinkabout it. In the context of the series overall and in this book I think fromwe found especially me. Having spent three days, teinten research on isthere's a lot one going on this in this book that I thought yeah. There is alot more gun on than I and usually thought as well. Another reason whyit's interesting stuff with anseing academicals is this is the book wherePRACEC was diagnosed with Elziva's halfway through running it Obbo, sothat sort of a definitive part of his late life eventually died a choosing toOnyi Cerin life. Guess that's some confirm, but yes, definitely e coming in advocate for eaager N inlater life. So this is a significant turnin point in both the series andprojate life. There is the documentary about his experiences with Alsimer'sthat was made during writing up this book. I didten net watching it Icoundnot bring myself Toetata. I will eventually watch it. Maybe we canreally watch it in four years when we get to this book again but yeah. Ithink that would just ruin my day and I've been having some good days lately.So yeah has someone who's pretty sensitive about watching things. I havetreasered to avoid that just maybe not doing due geladins buthey. This is meant to be for fun. So, according to a new scientist, interviewcalled Fin teet the fantasy life by Sane, Juda Orcomma. That was done inthe lead up to the publication of this book. It Sai Tha Pretet, LosTinsibility to type as a result of ourr...

...timers and had to dictate the rest ofunseing Atagemicals Tois hi sister, who you tell me, is wand. He was blind andhe thought God made him blind her the dictate his daughters, this whole thing,and it also so that's you know this is the first time y books not beingwritten directly by pressure himself indictated. It says in that samefeature that so far prechert hasn't noticed anything and he changes to hiswriting. But hehas been approached by scientists who want tottract thedeterioration that they believe Marc and prejuces that he likes voxes, butat least they have the decency to wait until the Dunkey has died. It's notfine. If people want my cooperation on this, so he was resistant that sort ofidea, but something and it's maybe not a really tacful place to start. As I dothink. This is a point where, from here on the discord books get worse. Are youfamiliar with the later disqor books else? No, I think I read the firstThosan twenty five right. So that's half the Suer Yeah Yeah, okay, twentyfive but fae of time, you've broken for time yeah, I think that's the twentyfifth one, or maybe the last Alfem, but you're somewhere in there. Well, so allthis yeae rost stuff of the social stuff got some catching up to do. YEAAR,okay, yeah! After this, I think this there's formal mooks, there's two ofthe tiffany aching ones and there's raizing steam and snuff stuff is, byfar my least favorite discub book. THAT'S THE WHAL! He first mainlineseries, one that comes after this and raising seems not much better and Ithink that's a pretty generally held bepoint about the series that the lastfive or so books Aren' that good. So we can't prove anything Ol show inconnections that it does seem, like the diagnosis affected, his writer, butlet's get into the book itself. So this book is the diswor take on on footballol soccer, as we would call it. I guess I keep calling it football, because thebook calls of football for that. The ball yeah, which is sort of like asportsball thing right. I didn't much care for the football joke. I mean thefootball jokes for the most part. Well get tat in that yes, but thethe book isespecially about the wizards of unseeing university having to play agame of soccer which just like, if you're a a university- and you know,academics just imagine than playing soccer and it gets funnier. You know Ihaven't done that and it does itdoesn't it yeah, sorry guys, which the the wizards of AunsinUniversity they're forced into this match to keep their funding thatbecause of some ag pack that doesn't really matter. Otherwise they won'thave enough money to more than three meals a day understandable. Theircheese board would deferiorat as well yeah and so the MORPO pretition morethan now uses them to reform the game, which seems a bit classes. To me. Youwere saying, I would say, probably Isyes, but that's the promise for the book.What the book is actually Atbaut is it's a paroty of Romeo and Jullietabout fashion and an t e orkname Mer Mat rosiks work, so you can beincorporated into society incorporated and assimilated Simlaed. I think hecorporated is actually I mean I didn't do this deliberately, but I think maybeworks well will come back to incorporated at the end. I think, butthat I think that's, maybe a forty and slip which again pas in to some of e the themes of the book,and none of this is really as fun and as exciting as it should be eh. No,what was the reception of the novel, like, contrary to our Soro, my sort ofhypothesis, that the books do get wost from here? It was met with a lot ofreviews that emphasized that his alson is had deteriorated. Te Writing at all.So I've just got a bit of a brief survey of some of the reviews that arejust taken from the first page of Google results if you clap in huntingacademicals our reviews. So these are sort of the popular abused Summer Crossback hurry rich in the Guardian, and he says that, despite is Alsanas pratchetrites with te quote undie triumphant exuberance that bower from Denniv Geeksays that concerns about the effect of Alsimers Lasson for about the first olepages, after which he realized that unseen, that unseying academicals wasgoing to continue the traind of Procet novels, actually getting better. Thisis swit bother's, mind wondering during some of the subplots, which you spend aparagraph explain. So I doesn't really Burg well forh books that came beforeif they're getting better bat, the subplots of bad jost UA as hill fromfantasy book review, gave the book a ten outof Tim Review, even though herealized that it wasn't as good as night wachol nation and noticed someunhappy grammatical, erras and a few scenes that seemed unpolished, whichperhaps standd from praccece lack of direct control over the riting andfinally Stuart Kelly from Scotland on Sunday, so that unseen academical showsno diminuation of his talents, nor softening of his asserbic anarchichumor. Although when the opening paragraph cully says that unseeingacademicals could have been the first book, so Terry Cracect wode and thenends e Pargah by saying that is efictally amusing in the manner thatonly hard work and trudecraft can sustain. so He seems a bit confusedhimself, 'still reeling from unpolish, that's the worst o Yeahso. I think Iwas talking about the specific notthe...

...story, the actual Grandmar, which mighthave been a printing thing, but he was Te. Rele wher ther was attributing thatto the idea that he dictated the book. So all of these that theyre making anote of saying no, it's still good, while sort of acknowledging that it hasimpacted it. So I think that might have been drawn more from a desire of fansto defend it rather than an actual evaluation of the book itself, which wewere gettinto now so else you, the academic, anal aspect of this sor ofstuck out to you. Well, I think also just because of the year we've hadbecause we're recording his at the end of two thousand and twenty, which was ahell whole year, GE generally, but at university is it was, was like walkingthrough a Mindfield, oh yeah, because of the many Buricrac changes that werehappening throughout. So I think a lot of it just stood out to me because itas his criticizing academia and all of its haps, so the booket does start withthe revieal that the dean of fancing university has notthat's the word. When you, I wasgoing to say, jump ship, but turnd a betray yeahe, that's how frutcallytakes it yeah, but yes, he's jumpsure to another university to be the ArChantol there and that's a pretty big shake up of the unseeing university stuff, which hasbeen consistent. I think it's since soucery one of the early books ois likeeight for six someenen there, where originally all did the as chantels atthey're, getting killed off. He need to wis a book and replaced, and then RedCalli comes in and the faculty is pretty consistent till this stage inthe book. That's a pretty big shake of what else jumped out to you about theacademic, El Softar aspect to this idea that theyhave to have a game of soccer every hundred years of they won't get theamount of food that they get like it s. They say it themselves. We have to havetraditions, but there's no reason for them to be doing any of this beyond thesake of tradition, which is much of what cadeneis about it's like at theend, when Glenda walks on the grass and there's like suck it, it's mocking that I ded tha only onlythe dons can walk on the grass nd, but the wizards are pretty resistantthrough the tradition. They don't want to play the game and they coaced intoat by the prospect of less food. This is true they're obsissing overtradition, but, as you say, they then resist the tradition when it suits them.They, I think there are some fun Jekes in here about the sort of tradition,the bureaucracy of universities generally so my favorite and is an INAfake, jokes bit, but as a dog reflects the mood of its owner, so universityreflects its arch. Chancellor Shu me thoughts on that. I'm having a lot offun about II'm, trying to impact that so dog thouts Ono doas, a dog reflectsthe mood of its owner, so university reflects its Helach Chancelor. So ifyou're angry at your dog all the time- and you just keep kicking it, butthat's it's not like the university looks like they're to like dogs. Looklike theyre own, a PETO nomaybe mathink like lady, and I don't look like Shellyso, which is a shame hes epras. I do like to flop around and be fed. So there's also a strange commentary onthe obsession with money. So, as you say, the Dean leaves and then he sortof comes back during the book and ridkally says. Oh, I thought you wouldhave a bank whatever or not. Where he's gone, and he says Oh, we have a limitedbudget. You know is at the arch chancellor, that's a governmental grantthing you see and then the wizards fell silent. It was a. It was as if a manhad just told you his mother had died, which I find quite iron it, because nowwe are so dependent on grants and scholarships and fell it hids and a lotof yes, financial revengement at the university, so you're just you'reliking, niht Fon of the fat, I'm lot on the Commontry I'on. The note of the traditionl thingwhy one net about sort of the academic mechanacions of this is the seem ot.The Arch chancels had fewer call thisis. The original ADTSchancelors had is sort of a magical, conscious, Hab, tit searked up all theknowledge of o Chancelas Yeas, past and Brid. Kelly doesn't wear this becausehe has his Aran sazs. He had with a cruss bar and and Ha drigs compoment,but he tells Vetnari that he does have the original mass chancels have, but henever liked wearing it because it grumbles all the time ten nor it goes.I can talk, and he says I just nags me all the time, but then the NARAYS. Well, so the hatcan think and speak, and this is obviously a parody of sorting ha fromHarry Potter right in what he says. Well then, you can' of own it like if,if this hat is contest, thin yo can't ha it so it's sort of painting the sawthey had as thi sort of sorting hat slavery, which obviously plays intosome of the because it just lives in doubledolls office and doesn't get tohave a life of a Tim. Obviously ties into the not norrativesbut yeah, also some,maybe racial slavery, connotations that come with that that we will com an areon the monything as well. There's also the we are pure academics mestecipants.We do not care for mean money, so we do...

...now just scrabble around in the Dirk, not so much of a SudySoyou'eresatedmore than your own. There are few other bits during thecommentary of the soccer match at the end that it is insisted that the thecommentator read out all of their qualifications after their name, but henever actually then gets to say anything because it's just like youknow, Alice Kap, Sta, Yea Masters, Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. I remember theyeah Ta bit where he reads out: everyones creditial yeah and I think,like the suptexts, there is, if you're just so focused on that. So often youget nowhere and nothing happens, but maybe I was reading into et too much. Idon't know I mean that's, not really what happens right like he couldn'tcommentate effectively because I't I'm saying that it is a cliche but sort ofin modern universities. No one uses their titles except for Maei, it's in aCertin, spraylinga thing or not to maybe not yet, but there is still thatobsession over Euroigt quafications. Well. The point on this is aboutacademic research itself. You may remember: Heck has just discotered a new particleand they find out it travels faster than light in two directions at once,and then the other worards a like. Oh Great. What's the point of this and hesays well nothing really. It just allows us to disprove this previoustheory. So it's just like going around in circles, academia, yeah and no well, no just the disprovingthings is useful. It is but I like the jokes but Andi ot sort of Bue me like Imean at this point. I started getting bucbed down in our academic life and Idon't know how relatable Esesone, but something we have to do with everyprogress review and everything hat everything you have to do is. The firstquestion is like well. What use is your resession now I'm looking at vegetarianscience fiction, so they poibility of my research. Isn't that obvious? Butthe answer is because it's interesting because I found it interesting, Ithought some other people might find it interesting and from experience peoplehave found it interesting. There are people interested when I'm doing, andI've ended up looking at things like Roon colonization and you win report,tobact, global warming and thing so by Puling on threads, you and TAT plosesthat you don't expect so sort of leads us into the academic treagment ofpracet itself, which is something else in doing this is despite procts hugepebasive populaary, I mean Hes, one of the most successful authors ever therehaven't been a whole lot of academic work done on him, which is verysurprising, obviously there's a lot of theres, the withie that has all thesreferences lames, but as far as yeah academic studies there's only two MAJOCbooks that I can find about. practured both are by Androwand Butler who's,sort of a science fiction, fanacis collor, so there's the pocket, asentral Guid to Tarry cratchit from two thousand and one and then an editecollection of conference papers called Terry Practic guilty of literature fromtwothousand. Now there there are other articles that have been written aboutPrachec, not as many as Wyou think there are articles that discuss prachetwhich well get into, but so in doing this podcast day also sort Thof, one ocontribute to that body of academia about someone who, in one of hise fewacademic references in Edward Jamess, notes on science fiction, Te, twentyTwenteth Century Orom, Ho San nine hundred nd. Ninety fourso. What's thatthat's twenty five years! Twenty six years ago now a me like, I think, tentwelve disqot books in says that fourteen percent of all book sales werefantasy and science fiction and that ten percent of all the fantasy book SolOne thousand nine hundred and ninety four were by Terry Project. SOHES.Someone who has this huge, Copro Clod, so academia has largely ignored. Youthink it's because he mops them nerse Liste, Wat, yeah. Okay, I enjoy it, butmaybe iter dos a good. Maybe, but I don't know- I'm not sure, but theearliest academic paper on prejuce was was by Butler. It's called to cratchitand the comedic build dungs froman building from Om buildings from Arn Ivebuill done. Someone sounds like shit: Badal doesn't buildings for mom God in Yourmam, I'mgoinent. Well now I have to say all these fanty technical, genal, whorsemails, please sorr and Thi was pulished in the General Foundation,which you can read someone milework in some of the more recent missues. Yes asKvotbut. This is from the UME, Om, onethousand, nine hundred and ninetysix and then analyzers projace work in terms of well. Since you know how tosay why, don't you tell the people what a building it's kind of like a coming evasion ovelat follows. It follows a character of basically almost from both or lilychildhood. All the way through Dickens is the one who really developed this.It's now very central syster of Mon fantasy and hero's journeybooks, butthe idea is that there is good. There is growth. There is moral development.You become a fully fon person who, as lone of things by the end of it andthen normaly you die. You do the REEDOR over churrecter. Youfinish, the PAUILINGSA. Can be a bit...

...like that, I'm gonna say Youl di mandeal with it good Graf. Yes, it's! The novel of Education is the Etomology ofthe word so coming of Ach novel and Butler uses, he applies it to precicework and says of the earlydest were model novels up t one thousand ninehundred and ninety four. Was It onre? Ninety six, I think this one was theothes Ni, O oftherly discatmols. This is what practice doing all these booksare about. People growing up, I think equal wrigtes is DT one which is goingto be the next book. We do. I don't know it di the first who, with Winwin,don't really seem to fit this lig o because it's rinklan halfway, developed,Isyeah, Alreadya mess and Knif, I'm thinking back to some of the early ones,that's which is abroad, and things like that. So I don't know we wan realiz atthis article in more detail when we go through those books, but I did want toask: Do you think this theory applies to our unseen, actemi kind of and kindof? Not because it's not caral it's not in order likeyou get what happened to not when he was younger and then it sort of startsaffter the fact. If it's the idea of education, then yes,because he grows as a person and becomesfully formed and goes off intothe WORL. You could look at it that way, but not striftly speaking, I wouldn'tsay I think not fits the Otigin. Also triff right. It's sort of it's not hisfomin of age, but hi's becoming Amazng e Cinding, a person yeah becoming his own man. I cancas youcucall it of a coming level, which is the build ons oem right, the andsomething like a qualifier might ane t had that. My clarified is a bit. Isthat Butler says that project uses a specific form of the building Ns Ormanyeah, which in which the protagonist emerges along with the world andreflects the historical emergence of the world itself? He is no longerwithin in epoch, but on the border between two epox as the transitionpoint from one to the other, this Transitionis accomplished in him andthrough him he is forced to become a new unprecedented type of human being.Now, there's a lot of big, unnecessary words going on there. There's a lot of emphasis on humanbeing is probably something that doesn't really apply to a sort bout atal coming of age, but this idea that the hero is involved in a reflectssocial change. I think that definitely applies to yeah, not like I mean fromyeah it's a foling, Ermam and- and this is the parten of I think, more, thelater discuabe novels than the early ones the botble is examining. Is USyou're saying you haven't really read the second part of the series as much,but this is a pat. This idea of a new species getting incorporated into thecity a lot of the latbooks, not as Bak goblins, Mer, vempires, the Bampie ones,is the troll ones through the watch novels. So yes, this is the thecharacters reflecting the social change. That's going on in Tiscrub and ancmorpork, that's going to be about as technical and Ifalun as we're going together. I can'tproespect. I want to avoid geman terms like good Ansterman, which I'm onlyusing and praanting incorrectly, because the relevants ofv it Beeng thethe establishing piece of Pratet scholarship. So in that sense you know I want this to be away ofofdemocratizing academia, making it more accessube to other people, becauseI have a theory that more people would be interested in the stuff if it wasn'tlocked up at institutions that you have to have special RMISSIONS to access.But mostly I just wanted to use democratizing ademia so that I couldpoint out the footnote where it says that in Oemore pork thet propose modeof governance by a choice of respectable members of the community,who would promise not to give themselves ears or Bortray the publictrust of every turn, which was instantly the subject of musical jokesall over the city. So clearly, yes, the the people ofe Halhmore Pok on DIC, toomach of democracy, so we're going to do a segment now before we get intoanalyzing. Some of the themes of the Book Tha, I'm just calling our favoritejokes. So else. What was your favorite joking on seen? Academicli three iteomy favorite honorable met all right.I think my favorite is still the my fair lady joke, so Wi'm going toexplain. I do all right. Solundo and Julia are on a mode of transport ontheir way home from work. ACAP member wickeds are then Trolri bus. It'spatroll, Bol Selli, that is a Tro Yeah Yi, a Panon yeah you fal, liksil theyreon that and blunder is kind of like Julliet to mentor, and youknow teaching her the ways of the world and she saying Oh, you would attract alot better doings if, if you just tried to speak a little bit better andbecause Julie says, watch out a lot to call some dude anyway, she says with your look: Youcould snagg a man who thinks who thinks about more than beer and footy justspeak with a little more classet. You don't have to sound like and then she'sinterrupted by the troll asking my fair lady. The only ring you don't have tosound all my fair lady don't have to staund incredibly posh, and this is ajoke on othe idea of like t the my fair...

...lady Wel, my fir, lady being Ay, onethuand, nine hundred and fifty six play medatation of pigmally Yeah Aou Yeah. Ichuckled yes, sure ver soryes, pretty woman from thea more popularpatien. So that's that's just a good reference tat. Do you wantto do shoudo, my favorite one, and then we go to Ono rementions Odo, you, likeyour favorite one's, going to be a while Mi Toar, very co. Al Right Mentions Arwat kind of minewould see something like that in a par of innicent letters, says the lecturerand recent Os Yeah I get the Jer. CAN YOU SAI ruin? I've just alwayspronounced it like that. I think professor macdonagall does a that andHarry Potter and it's just like crus billins, O building or the Fordaou thesame to me. I'M NOT! I don't want to make an issureabout this. I so I that is the Druk again yeah thejkusit souns the Ame. This is yourbuildings for en theyr speaking of good com. Go on then so my favorite choke,which comes very early in the book, is when they're juicing lenda and theytook that her childwo tiddy Ba Mr bubble and presuat that traditionally in thelexicotof Papoff such a Beit should have only one eye, but as the result ofa childhood era, Inlanda sign, he has three and is more enligtnine from theaverage bar now at first, I only thought thi stroke was brilliantbecause of it's a reference to your ban, who is clever than the average back,but then it also occurre to me that he is more enlited because he has threeeys, O yea and but Yourgdar is herge yeah. Wegot a Yorgi, so thers lihtes man yeah. If you need arcan Yo sad how to getthat jerk no seriously and I'm sared of trucks. Sorry you said you had so some of myirable mentions for best jokes. I just like the idea of electrology. I thestit's associated thely your bedlike. Well, I was Gongto,ask it's the best bed, You'e eer Sepi, our family, friends and York, have oneat just feels like you're being heldd by soft things, feathers. I guess it'sa proper feather bed and you just get in it and a IE fether do not for a longtime, but just the quills used to go through the Perko Otan Yeah. We O Quiattress, now the as maybe thr oll EIT's the brand C Atebo, no, no ponsiveyeah. We should get one atal sponsorship, Sone podcaster Ip ther,Vincaba, Yeah Yeah, now I've kin of got a year. Maybe two years ago now mypartner Madtie and I invested in a kingsize bed and good decision before that. We've been sleeping injust a double which wasn't big enough and before that and my sharehous weereliving and the east to sleep together in the O R single bed. Oh I've donethat we hot for like three and a half years and I girt or Haw, was mat I justkind of like Thang over the edgenow in Thecnela PAP.Well, hopefully, so that's what yeah electrology, whichI did look into the Etomology of, and I can't work it out because let Lectro isto do with sigh and hamber. Apparently it's where ELECTR ELECTROLICIS Aora, Idon't know because lecture comes from the gear, the latning to read. So I'mnot really sure I couldn't worke out what electrolity is, but the the ideatock of my fancy something I didn't really appreciate about. The the humorin nonsing academicals was the iguess what we would call sizers, storPHARPHOBIC joks, there's a lot of there's a lot ason. You know yeah.Apparently, the technical term is putcakamor phobia from e Grout,cackermeaning, ugly and more firmaning sheet, which is a bit yeah, that's ugly ugly shape. But thatword that's from like a database of fears. That's not in the led, soithinkifis not eoed. It's not real, well common usage, but I think I'dprefer that ugly shape was't the technical term as a man of carriagemyself. One of these are at the expense of theUnseen University Housekeeper, Miss Whitlower and ten. Sometimes Colle YeahShe's picked out for not being conventionalaly attractive comparedwith the wizards wait to see yes, butthere's there's also a connection to some of the football stuff that we'regoing to start talking about briefly here. So when were going to ask treveor Cuaid all the piers. Apparently this is a reference to an actual footballchan which is used to torn out of shape players which goes whoad all the piswho had all the pies. You Fed fastef you fat, Bastef, you at all the piessound like family dinner at my house,...

Naces Brownhouse Kick Hem on. I have a video I'm going to play itMeou and if it doesn't pick up on the microphone I'll, just edited in LateoTat. This is this: is the champpion used in a video on Youtue fom, twothousand and an neight okay? So apparently an no Lolin Doncaratory Wik opedia research into thise. I dod confirm thesources, but do want to go deeper but apparently allegadly. This was firstsong in honor of Wiliam Henry Feddy Folki. I an KNOWF, the Ayopronouncedhed last name, who was a Shipfield United Gokeeper fromonethousand eight hundred an iney four ne Tand nine Hnde, ten and weighed arounda hundred fifty two kigrams hat's. What you want to go PP again, Chris, shouldbe the GOLP oees have to ry. If you got a hundred, fifty kilo he's staying onone side of the nite you just freak Yiu down and go to the other side and Yeucan't get back to thet. I feel like Chris is better an attack. A hundredfifty killrs is not big enough to walk an entiger Gol like thats six e hundred and fifty kil ago.Justdon't want to sacrifice Chris Anyway, we gott according to the Wicki thing twothousand and nineteen article from last year, I pointed out the tune thut, thechanes Sunto I whic ist called knees up. Mother Brown, which I did listen tosounds nothing like the chance sor who knows is believed to have originated innineteen, one thousand, nine Hunde and ighteen o eight years after we retiredso is perhaps an aprope fal story. You also an wayed around eighty one killosat the start of Hi's playing career. So yes, it's maybe in a POSSI ITA thing infootball, but I just that was a interesting football time. Anotherfootball reference that is prat more relevant to the rest of the book isapparently according to the disquall wokie that has all the deferenceslionic the Penona throring incedent, where they tow, but on ion to the feelto distract the libraris. The arangating seems like it's just a jokeabout him being in a ran time, but apparently this is a reference to along standing racist tradition, an sucker throng, Danamas and shatting,and calling black football players monkeys thisiwill time, lates o somethings, but this is something we still seen today: Rigt in Australian Real Worlds. Football was avery famous recent incident, Afin two thousand and thirteen where thefootball player Adam goods was called an ape by one of the the fans of thegame and then one of the the famous football clale presidents, a D andcommentated Edie McGuire that same week suggested that good should help promotethe musical King Cong. Because of quote, you know the whole life thing, so this still goes on and Adam goods.It's become sort of a representative of Racia Ishoot in AFL, actually dadyesterday that Eddie mcguir, who was not recrommended for these comments atall, because he was quote punished himself enough, Hes, finally, retiringfrom the Gwar presency yesterday, voluntarily Thouh so got he's a call ofcourse hes callingwood yeah, but also he's just he's someone who's had thesekind of things going on the public, eyeand hasn't had to answer for them,sir. That still goes on. But yes, it's Su prisingly little football of thebook. It's sort of the premise they ignore it for the bulk of the book andthen there's a game at the end, Yesori yeah and in the game o that is boring.It's just not being cool yeah. We've also got the ROM yoow and Juliettparody, but I really wish they sort of focusd more on the love story. Olao theShakespeare, an parady which so I don't have much to add to the analysis ofBrunanjody, I'm just sort of regretting that he didn't lay into that more. Butelse you had some thoughts, I think some of the the corts and the illusionsand again you can find this on the Wicki ther are interesting because theyfocusd on the idea of like triabalism and Shakespeare. So he rifts on theidea F in the Epigrath for Ratn an Juliet and his two teams, two families,both alike and dignity, and instead it's the two teams, aliking villainytribalism and then later on and we'll probably have to come back to this. Butnot he think hobies an organ means nothing and he says the like shot. Ilock he's like Yes youare right in an off, but does nook? Have I pesen a allHavyis, so e, going back to Shyloff and Maerof Benness and the idea of likeJews a humansto? So I think a lot of the shaksrpeare references are aboutagain overcoming the idea of travelism. I think I'd readhe in one of theinterviews that the the line about their two teams in biny was sort ofwhat came to him as the pardy O Romio. Juliet in terms of football is whatstuck this book just seems: Greeding at thin. heas sort of torn matur betweenpuots an ye really fully committo either o do do do yo. Do we're back BAC, Co back because thefirst time I tried to record this, I lost Mermento hog call. I also Felaikwe were bout. Struggling was an...

...experiment, but he went back Wi season.PODCASTES and Weits. Beein te walk three four months now it was last yearwe rerecalled in it was the Sembe last year at Stano, the stat of March twothosand and twenty one. So it's been a whil and in between we've recorded theepisodes on my equal rigts and weird sisters, fot a bit of experience. Wedid more, but it's just because we had sister stop as well. Weird sisters wasalso yeah in three separate sessions of o Bisis yeah, and I can't remember whathappened the other time. I think we just got tired of it. Yeah called it. Iwas like yeah, it was a great call which we should have done this firsttime e were back thatit's been four months and we're going to talk aboutowks, but before that, Mey have an important that day, because in thefirst partnen we talk about the football we talk about. Mr Edi Mabuier,Racist Football President Extraortinar now are you aware of the Ini, MeguireUpday? I don't follow him no of it. This was like headline news for about aweek, so I think it's a couple of weeks ago now, but thet when we werepreparing to rerecord this, I opened up my computer ind. The that news headlinewas that Collingwood, the football PAB that a mcgor is the present of therereceived a report. In last December I was found the club was guilty ofdistinct and egregious systematic racism and called for sweepingstructural change. Now that the headlines, though, h t they got thisreport in December, didn't comment about it until I think was the end ofFebruary, where someone liaked it to the media and they were like. Oh, wewere Goinna, say something right yeah. So, in a speech liken to transforseasons, total landscaping, press conference, Eddie mcgaa declared ahistorian prior day for the calling wood football club. Now this was meant to be his final yearas called president, so he hat so te ere, announce which now that I'mthinking, if you got this eport December and said in January, this isgoing to be my last year. Yeah Baybe. There was a connection there, but hedenounced that the start of the year that this is good, he's going to seeout the year and then hewas going to sit down. Tas Fred, he's Goen presientfor like ten years or something and then and then he did this. He was likeno I'm not sipping nowt, a I'm, definitely seeing thoty. My last yearis as the president of HA thing, but after a week of Everyo'n cracking theshits Hehas now stepped in co, pressite Byt, so that that four months worth offootball idate but yeah, our first actual topic, Thatwe Wante, to get tois fashion. Looking good feel hey that good. Yes, because I found the the fashionsubplot to Bei a far deeper and more interesting story than the the footballsompar. Is it because you're into ropall an not football? Well, yes, thutdefinitely had a baring, but just there was more going on the football thinglike there is no football thers I on Ame, there's one gu o the end. Thatgoes on for ball, but like everything in between an open development, ofnotn,everything is all through through the Paral Julia story, with Trev and andGlendotru. Juliet there's just more going on, and I thought Amore as we'regoing to discuss a more nuance. Engagement rather like the footballstuff is literally just just just football like slogans and NS. There'sno real, really commentra on football yeah yeah. It seems like a verysuperficial engageing in RAC s dressing up the wizards of football players andplaying the game ther's. No Real, yeah wheras. I thought with the fashionstuff. Iy Didn't go as bebecause. I wanted it to, but it went a bit deeper,but at the same time it's also like Asinarala paroty yeah, which againtalks through how I'm saying acodemicals is a bit of a reachwerdbecause, as I say, countless Tom Throughout the wet sis is podcast.We're going to talk about sinner, Il Adom, I woe get to which is abroad,because that's where prochet like that book is very specifically aparoty ofCinderala, so to be sort of rehatching. That story, like hear T, I think, doesspeak to this book being a lesseing Tra in the sits, and you do get like anexplicit reference to Eberalla in which is a broad here. So practiceacknowledging it, but still sort of forging ahead with repeating himselfright and the Firstan stuff is also, I guess, the or role and our rol ting,that ties football and the Frenh and stuff together is the exploration of cloth. So you have the, I guess,gentrifying off the football stuff and then wit the fashion. You have the idea ofwith Juliet that you know she's a lowe class lady and she becomes this highclass deband Mol. So Pat's the in teral story yeah, is he is he commenting onmodern fame like Billyar makes music an etron becomes Famos Justo, maybemakeing two videos on I dont thin Soi know it's likeio't hnit's a specificthing like that, because siny is befor that, but also, I don't think like likefinding the ounfound, the beauty and the suns kind of idea, that's Ben Godforever. OCE and Roun Yeah Yeah Yeah he's doing that when I think he'slooking at it explicitly to like ideas of beauty, sandards righthere with the fashion connection, which is maybe something different. The ideathat Jilliet, who is meant to be the most attractive person in the book orwhatever, it's kind of interesting that when you talk about attractive peoplebeing successful, there's this idea...

...that she can't be because she's Frorathe law Casso a people are surprised. But at the same time, then you have thecontrast with with Glenda whois meant to be unattractive or conventionallyattractive. Is that she's, smalter and intelligent, but COMP IT successful? Idon't know I'm just sort of spiraing at the moment. Yeah seems like she'sengaging with these things, but not really saying anything about them. Yeah,okay, right, but I think, is more substantial is how this applies to thedwarfs which this is Aot goin thing through the later ppression on thosebut yeah. There's a pall. The book where it says one thing you had toremember when dealing with dwarfs was the while iy Shit, the same world asyou did, metaphorically. They thought of it as if it were upside down. Onlythe richest and most infloentured wars left in the deepest cavirns for a dwarf.A penhouse in the center of the sea would be some kind of slum. A DWALF onthe upand up was really on his UPPESE and Upper Class Wal Sfootball Coss, adwarf, who was rich, healthy and had respect and his own rat farm justifiwayfell at rock bottom and was held in Lowesteam. So this is. This is a veryobvious inversion of class, but I think it's more stantial because of the worprojects down housewhere with the Dwarfsan in the other novels, whichyou're not really that familiar with these. Having not read the SE. Er isnot fair enough, O Wa on it yeah we're not going to get to this hapen throrout a lot of the wash novels, which is as well seen the team showd yeah. That's a lot. Seros Min O is witliterally not going to get to that like three and a half years. But I'm sayingcademicals is part of what Andrew Roman in Hes Wo thosand and fourteen bookPrantasy Politics Presdentdany Calls Prachece Dwarfanark, which consists ofeedaclay Bu Fitalm, fit elephone, Fud, Unseeng, academicals and braizing steam.I think I think, there's some dwarfs uff in the other books as well, thatthey are containing subplots around the gender expression of TDE worfs,particularly reled to the watch officer. Chery little botdom by onsenacademicals Bhut initially starts as individual expression and liberationhas been industrialized so that the new DWORF woman canautuals from Horn,hollets, beautiful war axes, andgraved of flowers, steel, boot, six, inches,high, wrust Pade, so Beautifullyou Havd at to take them into Thato, would be anact of artistic analism. Is that another problem in it of itself? Thougyeahwhy like if you're a DWALF wor an Anyou, want to go into battle, but nowthere's this like the best ones best acxes at Aeown,lons that you know you're meant to want. You shouldn't take in te battle becauseyou'll ruin it is that not then some sort of eggression of feminism, likelet's get the big accests, maybe actualls, trying to position himselfnext to that against that by saying that it's inauthentic, and also thatJulia is lower class, like he's attempting a ubversion of it, but thesame time we meant to like feel for joyant, because tit's sort of it's Guenna right is Hav. Yeah Hathattal yeah. She wooks down on it because she does doesn't have thatopportunityshit and she goes one intelligence O. I don't have anythingto do with fashion and then by the end of the book. Like my mental, like LenaMorbut, there is that flip, where it's like no joyes wantson needs areworthwhile and being a fashion model is as worthy as being a good cool callbeing whatever. I just don't think he goes far enough. I think you sort ofgestures at all these things, tbut sort of leads it all up in the air yeahbuwhereas Raman argues that procect reverses the lons liberation movementof th and s and that humorously reversed. These woven females arefighting for the right to perform their gender to adopt the symbols offemininity rather than burning their brows. They metaphorically melting downtheir breastplates in order to make something a little lirder and withadjustible straps. Okay, so in this world, they're Maye impress becauseI've got awea the heavy I'm going to go in battle and then melting those downto create later armor with male straps. Yes- and maybe maybe he's talking moreabout the books before onseeing academic als here, because the earlyparts of this are cherry, Stotsmarin, Livsi and and et's Posaly, expressingher femininity through things like a makeup and fashion, whereas now inOseeing academicals, where hitting the point, where fashion now flips aroundand comes to incorporate things like axes and and so there's some retention of ideas ofMascon and feminine signifyers that I think Prociet is rather than blendingso much. He is sort of making fun that fashion silly because it makes malethings into female things or whatever. No, but also. I don't think this is somuch a rebersal, as this is just Thair way. Heminism right, this ISN'm he'snot undoing. Second Wage Wie CEBERATION is alrigh. This is Ju Pala Yeah,because in O nineeen eightyear article performer vaccane geneor constitution,which is the foundational R thest transitional article of Third Way.FHAMASM juth Butler observes that gender is in Noway a stable identity ora locus of agency from which ges act proceed. Rather it is a identillytenuously constituted in time and identially instituted through astyrlized repetition of acts instituted through the stitilization of the bodyand must be understood as the Monday way, which probally gestures, movementsand enactments of various clients...

...constitute the illusion of an ibitinggender Sulf, which is a lot of words to say bad geter as performive yeah. The idea that I mean I don't want toexplain all the waves of feminism. Do you want to exclimn all the ways ofHIVN Yo get off, so you know not show my uderstanding isthat your first way founosn is the women's suffrage movement right? Yes,so just just write Brits People Brihteoand, then so that that isputting giving men and women the same social opportunity yeah I as sanding acertain way of fomism sexual sexual, but also the this idea of sociallyimpoesed genea. This is Devobas, hoping that women are born women, not becausethey have biology that makes hem. Remember because the moment people seethat they had that biology, they impoes a whole ot of expectations and andthings tat that funnow them into performing the way a woman is ecceptedto perform yeah conditioning fin yeah. So the record, the recognition T atfeminity is not in eight that it is socially apers. Men Third Way, FeminismGos beyond that and Ger as well. You can push back against that byperforming your gener in a different way. There is such thing as fourth and fifthrade things and thet's t e the criticism that it's Atle, O White, youknow o thats, we tats another Parton, yeah fotware stuff is making itinterseptional yeah thingsbut ow. Broadly that's your idea. So here youknow, Sain academicals were seeing this performance of rather than the dwarfsbeing forced to Wer Batwama and express thimselves as male that the hit secondway when they start putting my makeup and no neuroan putting on makeupen andperforming the Gounment Setralic, but that is still divided into their femilesignifiers masculine signifiers Righ, whereas now theyr blending theyretaking MHE oumer and making it creminint, yeah cool, so bout also says,has a given teriple duration within the entire performance acts of gendaIrashid experience and a collective action. So this reminded me of thecritical youtorke and stuff that I keep writing about, which Av no send ne thebook to Really Dobecauseyou're halfway through woman on the age of time withthe Mo Vera any painters from the end, baby, yeah and you're working. It Olove it. So this is what I got o Tom Weiler is a big deal in you, Torken andsice fiction. Scholarship calls the critical eutpas, and this is pased ootof these books. I workt Omer to that now, but the point of these that thisis a pushback against Outokia as an idea of an inpoint, some idealizticgoal that has to be achieved and a process that is continually beingreevaluabd, ather gold, cers being moved. You can never achieve you Doyia,you have to keep working for it, so it's critical in that sense and that itcriticizes the ideology, but he also says that it is critical in terms of acritical mass, and this is part of it. I wasn't really on board with this ideafor a while, but I'm coming around to it is that traitionally in yout in newUTOKIA, like it's part of Thislikttat, one great savior, normally a smarg Liko.You can see how everything should work better and rites. A bookin Girs Hee'sat Wehshoall, als live in in fol me everyon lived. How I said Yeah Im Welansays you KINDOF. Just have one person tell eveyone how to Liave, and then itchanges right. You have. You won't have a political revolution that is led byone present yeah. It doesn't matter of Churo Little Bot IMS just wearing in tomake up that's good for her, but it doesn't change society right, whereasonce you reach a critical mass of nough people doing this, they see, then itiaffects the culture. So enough, women are buning their bras burding theirbreaxt place, yeah. So yea we're seeing this shift from individual liberationin Onte achemical to a collective cultural revolution, yeah, okay, Buny,brastplates or Gild tem. You know I dialty breathpade yeah! Well, if I'mgoing to go in Batt, I want a breasthplay, so I ha mother now ar notgoing to battles. Wis Borin, your breastplates and melt your breastplanyeah, so Raynan suggests that project Wask may be read alongside Butler interms of how they suggest the fragility of gender if Genner must be constantlyperformed than it must also be continued and constantly remaide cheeryin the main, chooses what could be regarded as uncontroversial markets offeminineby Masca Li Sek dresses. High Yeels, a change of name, O Cherry andso on, Yeth can afpointed to this is that Ogo and over again we are toldthat Cherry refuses to shave off her bead or spent with her roundline helmetto her. They are not masculine markers, but rather markes of dwarfishness wasone thing to declare that you were female, but quite unthinkable todeclare that you won't a warf, your tove Anvedon Tha, so on Arna, who saysthat she's a dwarf who says that her sies technically a mind, and that meansthat under dwalf law she is the King of the mine and that in her mind, herwalls go and sin. She is the king. She declares that she is a queen. You seeDorflo, Benning and creaking, but not being broken yeah. The gendeorsignifies Har Been Challenging and overturned through the cultural mass,but the dwarf stuff. It's not that you're born an loffor Ano wod that youperform in a certain way. So you we have Genna being flit tat. She is aqueetn rather than a kingbut, still wel...

...staff yeah. So, using hat that divorcesocial one position of while the king is in charge like she said she treatsUS along as a mind, what's praccit trying to do wel. This is where I think it is interesting and complex that thingsdon't just flip en in theyre different yeah, different cultural signifiers, nany position tha've been used as abern other ones yeah, and maybe he's justsaying that your culture is more important than your genda yeah. Youknow you can wear whatever you want, but nowhere you come from yeah, whichin a way, could be seen as conservative like I don't particularly care for mypersonal culture going to say you could keep going the nexe step and say whatyou identify es is how Yo perform and he's. Okay with that Selff, we all eadadvice walls, but he stot saying that it's its aomprosing out now what fifthplay? Seven yeah ut, you don't have any dorves in diswor, claiming their knottowards yeah were you do have Captain Carret? Who is you know? Biologicallyhuman hat was raised by Dors Anto, while I IAM ADT, because he performs Olfcultureand because he feels an identification it that you don't havethe opposite of breaking out of dwarfness. But you do you have theexample with carroc going the other way, so projet still saying all these thingscan be alable, so ye dworfol, Bens and Creeks Er's not broken. That's whyJillett still as Wer a wholse beard, she's mowing TOA fashion right so das,upon her yeah and it's played an unseeing academicals as humorous yeahhumorous, but also like it's empowering to her or whatever yeah yeah yeah. Imean raylond claims that it's a calfol reminded that nurtions AF, feminintyand masculinete contingent, and culture and culturally determined. Of course itis hard to think of beards is being not maskter on, and this is a pentasyextreme yet expeted to the extreme, certainly sensitizes us to theimplications of real instances of ginnde waring such a stated Beck. I'mwearing US Ron, O cook they performing on MTV in a baby. Dowl dress to taketwo celebrated examples of Manin drack now also tol, Olandethin, forheryeryeah, to Hoda E on relebut. I think he goes a bit further than David Beckon wearing a sor O it owrong.I surprise Gesotbut. Also, I don't think they'rTenin ye yeah, like men, were Oro. Yeah re, lotes yeah come homand an Leit's,very NAC, it's fun. I mean I take your shit with the ideathat it's an extreme to think of women with beads and I think yeah. But it isinteresting because I'm going to go on a repors Ragras round here, U YeahonWeli, will try and keep them to a minimum. But since we are talking aboutYesas, your ow feshion and Gennerbi, so ruples dreges, which has mainstreated,drag for a better hole west that this is a whole thing which I am notqualified to talk about, but I mean they just had currently as weererecording this wer up to season thiteen, where they have their firsttranscontestant, one of their first Transcontiton, but their first oenlybiological, female Tomale Transeson, which is call what they they might winow. This is got mick. We're talking about that also, this is after twelveseasons and five seasons and all styles of Rupall, saying that transpeople willnever be allowed on the show because they have a biological advantage andit's like Darty in the Olynpicoh. This has been a whole thing right ohand.This is what I say: I'm O Califa to talk about this, for people who ar pinon the show how come and criticize the show for being rather conservative yeah.You know it's patrayal track like it's SA. Very. It's been amaize tin here,because, especially in the later seasons, it has become a straightfriendly, mainstream sort of take on drack, whereas recall back in the adiesused to be a gender bendary sort of alternatiive punk drag queen. This isall thing: Thi is not this podcaster bu before that we had dragras Holt andthey had a beautiqueen for the first time. I show now that dumb challenges,Wete People Have Al Won Beers and stuff. The thing that the PSYCON Drak race itsomeone. Does it ass? A big controversy like Alaskar iptresses men werecriticized for it and, like you compymend, this is about female lusionand then the next series they have a dress, as a man challenged to ONA thosepeople. That did that. So that's that's the cycle, so they'vehad people wit beds on the Ramwoin things, but this we had someone with apay did and they were a bd Queen. This is Asdragula, which is the alternativesort of draggerthing that that had three Babi Queens on it fir season andstuff and di the Quins Hav been around in tre culture forever. But this is thefirst time this mainstream series that ar to Veetnon- and this was Matammaddes was tin in and their whole story line was about the bed and tha. Thebead was holding the gramor back and they asked them to shave the beard theysaid like. We want to see what you look like without a bit like show someversatilly o Welland. This is another tribal dragos that there are thesequiito come on with agospicit trademark...

...and then like. There was one cronholMax who had Greay here and they said he just look. We want to see a differenthair color from you and then she will blond hair and they send it. Her thiislike this is a Trok that soon, as the Queens do the thing that they've beenasked to do they get in hert right Te, men hane show Toyo the came out o youwent. We you look Rit Tiner, so the story line there was about how gettingrid vir the being major Lok, Mororand, anthing aswell. Sorry, this is to saythat drag race while being transgressive is rather conserttive,but also that there are still these gender expectations within thesecultures and things so rean argues that through Jullia pen prejudice more thansimply remind us that non wis not the same as natural or fixed, because he'stratment is also a demonstration of the process by which notions of normalmescularity and feminitely can change, which is great. I do think there'ssomething gone on there, but I also think preciid is just making fun ofcross dressing yeah, as you said like this is he's doing this. For last, theidea that a an attractive lady would have to wear a bear is a COMEDIACcommernment. It's not really. We can impore the qer reading on it and sortof Selle jet, but when you look at prechit and what we now athorial intent,I agree so n Sal that what do we make of Pepe? If you remember Pas the agent, the the wiis like theassistant in the Solon yeah, I hes gender, clear. I guess we would call itnow. Yeah and Madam says pape is peppe and there's no changing him as it were,or her labels or such unhelpful things. I feel the transgeneration like Chamtonwit Cheffion, that put that on size. Yes, but actualy is having a laugh,yeah and there's also the SIM position that well, he is he's a him yeahbecause later Gleno counters him and observes that he and you have toremember that Ald work and you had to remember that all to or works youminitit go for it. He and you fuck and Youa, to remember Tha, O dos were heunless they asserted otherwise had when he spoke a voice that sounded like adarkest and most expensive type of dark chocolate, possibly smoked, and she wasa sheet. Gheny was sure of it. The chocolate was just too rich and fruityright. So ther we have a couple things going on. We have the idea that genderis related to biological sex. It's also CI sexuality. Everyone is assumingstraight I'm, so you Wer Sard, otherwise and NTO come IUT. You don'tcome out of straight sang with your agenda. People are looking at youthere's. Also I ean. These are sort of cultural, Famin, signifiers rightchocolate, rich fruddy, like these are io yeah. So what I'm sort of gettinghere is that huncred sort of painting pevasing as a Facar, the like it's, notthis, isn't his authetic self, as people would say that he is performingas this fashion e ster when he's in the store, because that's how fashionpeople are expected to perform or is session mana year when he's in thealley, you have any cigarette after th bin Ha Down Yeah and I think Prochas as bat.I Tru peppe really is again thiss idea of the authenticity on your dwarf. Hootis that HAE puts on performance in the Saon, but who he really is? Is thisperson I don't think he's Sayng TAT is bad. That Ol is putting on this forSare that I do think he's haying. The authentic pepe is the one in the arlyand the one in the sids in Orthenkic, which Krind of under minds the genderstuff. So he sort of truts gender expression as a costume, almost ratheran it's, not expressiong. It's a costume you put on which is sort ofthirdway ferism, but not really so. Yeah yeah authenticity is the big dealand you can just bet you want. You don't have to put something on brock,but also that involves putting something on to beat yourself, yeah,wes, preciou sort of saying you can wear whatever you want, but you arereally a Dal free smokes, an Oles yeah. You also have transgreen and pinkfootball scuff, which pomps not to ask. Isn't football o Brough Man's gamewhere, as pink, is rather a female color and he later observes? While hecomes to the realization Thare I think were comns an almost polligeratmascularity saying as it does. I am so Mascelane I can afford to temd you toquestion it. Giving me the opportunity to claim it an new by doing viovence toyou in response Yowh. This is a parody of like football Puligan who are pefore.I go Messon the endand were you know, salmon pop collertops. If I can besereotpical for a second, so I get the day out the but of the Jerke, but alsothis relis on the stereotypes of Pinkis Feminine Violences at is Masculine Ganyeah, so wer Gettin pretudice of serving a inauthentic performance ofgender signifiers een, a sort of an essentialist matl of emale divide here.Am I reading too much into this? I think it's that and just as he lastthing to sort of my evidence for project, maybe not beting the mostdelicate with the gitter expression stuff is that menglenda crowd sef. Sheis disappointed that she is not even gop, even once, which is kind of verseand again putting Intoto context in terms of newspaper headlines Today was:Did you say that OI didn't lat? This hone...

...a girl came out recently and startedonle sort of petition going around the sevty schools like I have experiencedthis spakeup, it's anonymous and it just oloaded and is now the rest of us.Ral is well good about sexual assault, broutom young men, and it's somethinglike one into now. They were Gon Tom and girls in their nineteens and fortypercent chance of experiencing sexual solg some way so yeah that doesn't atwell yeah. I mean this is prejent, saying that you know she was Wa. Shewanted to be grow and also grat. As the other joke is there. They CIN ner issoon attractive that no one had gron home wellingly, not Grean, Don v Ol.These triapment of Gon out, even though he's champing Harr, is the Sensifintelligen on gax yeah gross. All right are we ready for four Tousan Gods onOlk? Am I ever this coffee in the fringe will be fine,Rih Yeah? This book I mean alks come from talk and pracchase engagement withAL comes from talking because in a guardian, bookclob article andseenaciemicals project fains, that NAT was the seve of the book and that eversince he first wete talking had page Toutein, he was vited about the oaksnoticing that they were totally and e brother, probably tad that it was aflat given. There was no possibility of redeption for an ork and profectdefense, Holkan saying we are all prisoners in the aspect of our time,but now I think people have learned not to think that any very so culturee isnaturally or orginately bad and indeed in the new scientist een to ve I tarteddaily months ago now, but I did Sou e, like fucing comn through the transhrip.In the new signers interview, I saw the Vailia. It describes just what, asbeing like Lord of the rigs like ord of the rooms five hundred years ar ehumans, wherewalls scampires and goblins looking side by side semypeacefully. So this is what Proju going for. I H NK it's going to be more ofFIV already, I to sorry, you're Okin, well, O anthink about somwerleverSooreliance, everything we wa dealn with thousands already and they haven'tprogressed very far, but they do say the ward of the rooms I e from the timeEfor Oler the rings o Theyre saying five hundred years till walks in th. What can ork ever be trulyrehabilitated? We will get married three years, Alitel Decie, to do it.You gotalking to San Fast, like you've, got to have fo ilike th. I ocono methat there are our women. I we there are not that much in Ralps, yes, but NOWR. It's notright Isit now see it.PRUSSUR is Arken Ma ingaging with em wervising tovens ortops, and we haveexplicit references to tolken throughout all the books that it nonsayatdemic is as well where the visits have discovered. The third breakfast talking t the haid second breafast. SoI like the third reakfast a breakfast is is is a deal as on who skipsbreakast every day, because I cannot eat until about two. In the afternoon n,the lessif o left o a dinner. The can smash that year, but I guess I'm not really on board withthrog breakfast, but I do like the idea of discovering te another wor fo o talking is the battleof Borkdube, which is around e of Howi, did right Yeh. So the bettlebalk deewas the last time bout on which the Racono arks were deployedable or usedin onseen academical. So the DISWOR Wicke says it o deep, is likely Allasinto the roundway battle of rocks drift in the Hayle Zoagos, one thousand eihthundred and sevty nine, which was used to the modely faasy rater marry gentalstory, the battle of Awxs CGRIFT, an which the owks an counter of thery race.Not Unlike t the fiegals from Tis GRORL. I think that's full shit. I think it'sa refrence Dokty Hemt Ho sups yeah anihe on the house, Nat, there's noreference to ROK sdrifting talkins letters that I find why I did whant. Iwringin that up, though, is the reference to marry Gentle Malo boxdrift, because the image of not changed the Anil for son years as an allusionto marriage, entals book grants. This is the sympathetic al. It's not evensythetic. This is that as hot from the OFOR PECOV RAE run ote Yo yeah, it'sthe red shirt of boks yeah, but gentle is mentiond as part of the devicationto God's Gards a she is part of the HB lovecraft holiday fun club, which wetalkd about next episode. I wish were the group of conference friends thatTerri CRAJEC is a part of which include the SIC witchin Mada Hin jy HarritonAntil Gamn whos also mentioned in the same dedocation an gascart. So this issomething that one of pracice friends had already done in the s in and thenhe's referencing itthe, justaan interesting connection. And it's reallyinteresting to me about this engagement. We're talking is that beforediscovering, he is an Awk that is Disgi as directly refer to as a Goblin, andthis is interesting because in my hobbit talkin uses wor Govon in placeesork and he's opening authors tow to the habit. Talking explains that Orcis, notEnglish Ford, it occurs in one or three places, mad one or two places in theHobbit, but it's usually translated, Goblin or hog building for the largercients or is the hubbits form of the...

NAM given it that Ime to these creature?So prajice doing that thing where you say I am Oe, MEA translator of thishistorical documents of the Povit Languageo or come from ChalkanMatogatis the term or comes from polot language, Mat Soleninin, histranslation guy, then Nerman clature of a lot of the brings top and revealsthat he originally took the word from the word Orpias: a Latin combinationfor hell or death, an a dead body which he translates as the haunting shapes ofhell in his translation, abailble cool yeah. It is cool, it is cool, so tokinstranslated passage that he's referring to his a description of grandal. Do youwant to do this? One you want to do the the Bal Arit Rendo inhappy, oneinhabited long while the sharpines home for the baker had prescribed him withthe race of Kane than bloodshed. For that canslow abl, the eternal lotavenged no joy had he is that a violent deed, but God throve him for that crime.Far From manedkind of him all evil buruds were born, ogers and govelinsand haunting ships of hall, and the giants too that long time, Ward withGod, the Orpanas for the is transae nows the bit where he says organs andgot ones and haunting shapes of house an the Hunti Chas of how s is opinousthats. What he'so h! We also have them as being separate being and I'm readingthat as there are allgood oders ther are Goglins, and then there is anotherthing called Wokinsor, yeah e thing, Il think: parding shapes other things andImeanthe Prubie wreders areers in Volens and haunting capes of howalenans SAR te one things, but no ecause, he saidin the giant o. So soyeah he's listing off different things. So here we have in its original form,godones that are stiped from or caustheyre different criaturs YeahYo're, going to floot back and forth on this Idiea a lot over the next likehalf hour so N. it's original for me have a distinction between the GOBLINSand the chapes of hell that it was, but in the Hobbit coblins and Awks arequated, as we saw from the author's note. The only appearance of the wordork in the original on Housand, nine hundred and hirty seven edition of theHobbit is gint. Geting off tells bilmor. Before you could get around Mirkwood inthe north. You would be right among the slopes of the great mouns and they aresimply stiff with Jobin, yes, TRTA Qithey wit on hot goblns andowks of the worst description. So I mean that's specifically the vaiablething: Govens top GOBLINS and owks yeah a separate things. So just sayingTalkin wasn't Bein consistent, whe's, not being consisten, not, but I thinkhe's claiming is yeah ainsince, O oxwas added in the nuhunded.Fifty one second edition of the Hobbit when Bill Bo discuns a hafage throughthe misty mountains as a bit low for go ons, at least for the big ones. I there go etat and I think a NIH Gon. The passor is a bit low for Gomons, atleast for the big ones, not knowing that even the big ones, the owks of themountains, go along at great speed. Toop floae their heads almost with ot,so with their hands almost on the ground, so her God, Onsan allcs it thesame thing. Yeah there's also the SORF Orcoris for the Goblin clevand and theancient town of Godewin, which is made for the GOBLN wars. That's the sor thatthey're Dopin, the Dwarf Clean Thorin uses in Mahammed and Lik les also usesit. Mhaan move so through the naming of that by having aucurist aqueted with YeGoblec Gomin Ly fo, so Walcan Gomon there quaited as well so in the hobbithe's saying Os God the same thing, but then we get to e all of the rings.YDCORRECT SH is correct and in the all of theRings novels talking switches, temonology from Gomon to or yeah. Infact, the Work Goblin occurs less than ten times throughout the whole series,and it's only in tme. First, two books: Did you count that oway thatspollarship I git O our WOAS? I read that and then Y canfiract it you just nFo lit yeah searchwill pay the assor Wer ight Bao. I didn't not R, I'mdefnitely duready read o of some point, but not while there are still otherbooks what I have not reade, Aman yeah, so many of tokens earlier. It is alsocontinue to equate goblins as a translation of work. He writes in aletter to the historian Huburbon Heertaine, fifty four, so this is afterthe fellowship the Rings Come Out, but and around the time the two a housesgot to be published Y, a he wats, the borgens preference to Govermans to owksinvolves a large question, have a matter of taste and perhaps historicalpenetry on talkens part. He says personally, I prefer Awk, since thesecreatures are not Godlins, not even the Golins of George McDonald, which theydo to some extent resemble. He is confused. Yo know this Georgemcdonney's, referring to a story called the process and the Goben oronetousandeight hundred and seventy two. If you know this one yea ndeighten, seventy socome on. So I just did A. I didn't read this, but I did a quickwooopedia on itand Abela boy who rescues a princess, who's, kidnappedby copones, and it goesinto the goin lines and stamps on the...

Goblin sfeet except the queen has likestern shoes or something- and this reminded me Becaus- something that I dosaying. Ou onseing ACNEMICALS PODCAFT is ask. Does this to the DunbonDimension Monster? She kicks him in the hair, and also this is just. This isthe story of the first Tiffy Akin Woo, the we freeman rerhad like her brothers,kidap e by the ther Om an she goes into the thing I mean this is a Ferytimarchetype. So so I'm not saying it a reference O Georgiea Donald, butthere's a lot of over lap, POW yeah. Well earlier you have more hand morepoment. You have Christiana Razettis COBA market thod, ine hundred and sixtytwo, which is the one I'm familiar in they. The GOBLNS are portrayers welltricks to breakasts yeah. I would describe ee SA Egetin oit trick re. Ite rous, Sir Yeah, so more about God ones in more detail. Maybe we'll readthis McDonald book on. We get a snuff which is one of the last ones we don sofour years. We can talk about Hav problems a bit more. He alsoaccomplicates things in the Twi Chais by introducing a third term which isvery high now thes. This is generally understood as the they're, the bigrwalks it's the hot govns in in the hobbit right, but there are some complexities, soinchecte three of the two towers, which is title that Ar High Marian Pipmen,the habbits taken captive by the Orochi after Barmer's death at the end of thefersh o the room, and this chapter also conteins for so almost half of theseries ten instances of the WORF Golin so that confused t what is e using themas adjective type. So, throughout this chapter, the Ro High I estinguish fromthe other, smaller Goblans or ecause, also capitalized, while God on, is notso that's a fanet or because a property wole got one is only a genelized term.In this chapter, it's the awks talking amonst themselves, so that we're highour using Goblin as a prejudice Tom to talk to to label the small books withso the or Khig leader Uglic, whre, sle Barman, and whose name applies ugly declares. We are the Fuddin Raki. Weare the Soan of Ceremon, the wires, the whitehand that gives us man's flesh toeat. That's your sort of self definition of who the R repier Ighpoety finishes that by saying I am a block and ihave spoken soy, pretty soanLaran Bio, but we also have like some racial coding slipping through alreadyhere, with the allusion to cannalism and being controlled by a white hangyea, and this is interesting because the oaks also fear being captured andeaten by the human pursuers e tasty. So yeah I mean I don't really havetrime to impact the association between cannibalism and embracing the colinialracism and things. But it's also being used here as sots the news, her ocurred,the Hawks as as savage shit, coner, cod and barbarous, but it's also been UWS.The awks are saying that well, the men who are chasing US say they're going toeat as SOTS. It is acknowledging that it's just used as a general other room,but your enemies will eat you yeah, but then t the Awks are happy the tower andgive some flesh to weet. So it's kind of kind of strange there and the CAwasn't thing is continued when Pipin as given some bread and a strip of Ra dridflesh by the Awks, and he only a e bed being fanish, but not yet so famish asto each wesh one to him, Byan Hawk the Fush of he did not guess what creaturelike you got on a vegetarian Ron s waiting, that's fet wit. The smile wasFooh, okay is Aveetaron. Well, I mean because I don't think that when we saycabalism I think the Oki their enemies. They don't eat themselves and it's aquestion of what is t was: maybe the Orse would e themselves a pee Finin anis asi, but he's just assuming that it's a human mad lipobit mat. I guess Imean it's implient, it's mentally. How wit me, but the idea here is it's more-that the fleshes are clean because it's origan thats given to him by Bode Ox.Therefore it must be kind ofblisted, but n NM clean rather than if he was atHarome in the shy having you know set me breakfast yeah, so I don't know, Idon't really have a full fall on tot, but it jumped out to me BEA. There aretous o Ting toet, the human viters, forsilling them and their horses, solots of cawars and stuff going on there, but yeah it throughout this trapterOlik clashes with the smaller or grushnack Ho was frequently describedas a Gobon. Throughout the passage I think three times he's referred to theGovernman. So that's almost a third of the entire uses of governmor used as ainteolk put down as the hobbits observe OBLAC is a larger black walk, whileRushmack is a short crooked leg to creature, up very road, a long arms butHame halmost to the ground. So we are getting the divide that if there aren'ttwo racial groups, there are two cultural groups: Ther Ere Hi, who areWarriel Lik an and serve Sirmon, whereas there's the Goblin Hawks, whoare, I guess, they're acquaided to the gobls from the hobbit right. These aredifferent. Byes we've been talking a lot here or leading to the sort ofracial coting oalk. So I guess we want to make that and bit more explicit, soyou her two thousand and sixteen book Habitof Oneis Howar Young. As I we weretalking about early she's in Australian...

...critic. She Workd at Deacon actuallydoes a lot of work on the Middle Ages that also vior game stuff. She observesthat humanity and it allies commonly als and dwarfs in the High Fenoo seworld in which walks pre are coded as white and indeed in the ORCAR chapter.The human rages are described as white skin wice yeah, my implication, thehumans are why the Wawks are nom lik, as young fuather observes. The Oaks inLord of the rings are symmatically different to the white self of thefellowship. They are part of a millennium or Western coutral discoursethat others, the Eastar people and the embodiment of racial logics andstereotypes and the preceded threat of assagination an indeed that's what Iput Gan her, what to say. I say indeed, indeed in N nine hunred and fifty L toforest j ackaman talking Usk of Mortin Zimemans unfilmed treatment of theobering snovels. He asks why does he qut beaks and feathers on the AWK ORCAS,not a form of Awk auks poens? The orks are definitely stated to becorruptions of the human form senion held to men. They are Awer Squat, broad,flat, narrose cellor, skinned with wide mouths and Slat eyes, in fact, degradedand repulsive versions of the two Europeans least: Lovely Mongo types yea.So, if not in the text at least meditatually Talkan been very explicitwith his ratial coding of the ox and then the comparison to the pure of whatEuropean standed, which is not surprised that if you knewn anythingabout lother rings Bouto here it is so young argueis that theyre formingtropes attached to wocks, which are all racial, so theyare commonly oftherd bytheir skin collor, their extreme aggressiveness and a rationality beingprotrayued as prudive disorganized, cultures and homelands which areoutside the borders of which are outside the borders of civilization.Some issues with the present of that Buttat' Ki, going on these turps, shesays, resonate with anti black races, tarotops, which developed possiblly. Itank the Knockin centries to justify colnualism and clibrery. As we've beensaying sor, do they use stereofas touch n up? Do you think? Is he aggressive?There are moments when he's anpry he's not. I rational, but he's definitelynot a rational, IHE hope ont of hes care. So I gont think that on o Flis,like I meanin Hes murments of aggressiveness o primitive. Although heis pushed to live in the well, the go at the don O okay, so this is mineagain, you know that's what that was my issue with Yeah Iwas phrasing, there,the she's using saying the extreme aggressiveness in Arathair,rationalities and inherently racial thing and torders of civilization andprimitive. These are all subjective. Eing issues are referring Tor. Whyeurohean send et herself Yeah Sen e Si? So if we take that as a Atnon Europeanculture or a culture outside I mean, I don't think it's a stretch to say thatI'm more Pokinan than the pratchic cultures, Europpeain Ries, it's middleof O shes. What I think, if, if we go through them, her laers tar are outsideth wars of civilization. Yes, he comes from overworld, which he's Germanironically. Is He prob a preative or disorganizedculture O don't ever find out much about the actual lowksto have Colturaleas a creete, so that one kind of they were the most organized colture becausethey were make for a specific person put to it so that one's kind of hard, Idon't think he's extremely aggressive and irrational yeah he's clearly not sothe me we have it skin color. Do you remember? Well, color, not skin, LosGreat Great, so yes, he's distinguished why his Cret Skin, except on the coverof the book? Yes, where he is portrayed as what, with all the other whitehumans, the book capital P problematic. But yes, he he petrays, not as at leastit looks too to me he has. He said no Yn AG cry so yeah h t that Sidlway version thereis sort of I'm doin the marketing of the book, even though we got some problems thereof all but sympathetic, depictions, Bok statseans young owties that onlypracace does not present. Iggression has an inherint tendency of awks thatnot has the strength in gapacity for viles associated with woks in everywork in which they appear that chooseis not to use it in destructive ways. Whatdo you make of that? He doesn't Wel. She saying that he her has thephysicaloly box, but he chooses not to use it in that ways. I guess Wer. MySONA issue, my sicking point on that years, that that is saying that alkhave an inherent raggressiveness. I because Sheis freating it as a choicethat he has to choose not to be evient, not that he just is 't violent yeah. Hesaying he's having to fight his Yin know, vience to cetral an equivalentwill be like saying that men have to fight not to rat or something right,but we are choosing not to be aggressive to Yeahtr, solv people orwhatever, rather than what we just Dar, because we don't want her yeah. I thinkthis, I think- and I think thirs plase in the book that not is inherentlyviolent and pressure, is saying he is vailuable because he chooses to containhis vancs and fit into this European...

White Society, but then inheritance.That is the judgment that people that are outside that society are inherentlyviled needs to inform to our stants or ink it's a problem, so we don't getvery ful yeah does't be very far trying to yeah. This was sort of my problemwith the lolatod books that we were talking about, that, like the gobinsand stuff are only worth Beng. How of siy wanted to discover they can do athe people on the watcher, only prove they can be part of the sidy if theycan be good watchand. It's not just that these people are good anyway, noters. Only aonly has worth and will get to this a little bit later Tbat. Heonly has worth because he can conform to our standards, yeah so back toneoliveralism rere back to the Euroliralism, which is yes moreapparent in the discote books than I on Evet Yeah. So the Rachal curting thing,particularly with the Redownto, the sin color is seen outside of talking aswell, because oobits, the first major apearent of boks outside telow, was inthe oringinal nine hed and eventy four version of Domons and dragons, whichwas figed up quickly by advanced sunjons and droins in one thousand.Nine hundred and seventy seven yeah, so thet walks in the advanced, tagens anddragons module had that bread, skin and proment faces and jaws, which ereflected earlier dnd descriptions, while theire black pladed or dreadlikedhair and heavy muzcled hypermasc on bodies, along with the ICRONOGRAPHY oftheir armored weapons, curded them a savage travel and not why young saysthat these are Olks Ber, considerable resembente to the Rohi of Pter Jackson, sor of the Rinstroms soand in condectioal speaking Tatsis, an drivins Byr. Looking like thedevelopment of potculture of fantasy troves, probably the next step, aff alot of the yeah. So walrens colled up with the idea, but were likspiciallybecause lot of the rons of it so you're imagining righ yes, yes, you mind,whereas these tubs, an Danes modles, I think yeah they came with iustructionsand pretty sure. Yes, yes, SOM and the modern wants to do now anyway. So thisis where you're getting the actual visual signifiers of alks that areimplied in talking made explicit. You Don' EANTERINK, but there wasn'tanything I between this there's, probably something that these are thesea becaus. That's because that's whatfifty, four fifty five is loat ofthe rings and then certainly fores, umps and Dragon. So there's deinitelysomething between I can go looking either way: Yeah Popular Image of box,so we have these days, is the image of axs and all the roins films. Also heremail world, warcraft vew at you Ar Played Lord of Wal Crift, I'm lookingat you a that's, not take oter them. My friend I avoided I but more just ISSHan myntie ten years playing solar games of Dvlatoria and if we'd had aninternet connection that could have handled love or craft, I probably wouldhave gothim right Australia. So I avoided that BA ashe infrastructure,yes s, the ox of were walk, oftan, im, Hadgreen Skin Wen, the yeah camas firstway, although in the war o word of warcraft, this was lady Robile to bedue to an Exposione to evil energies that turn the awks naturally brandskininto a sickly grain. This is kind of saying it's not racial stereahastbecause they got oose actually, but also they were just brown people, notgreat. You know. No Yo yeah also know its that comparison to anmals,particularly pigs and apes, is common to almost alditions of dugons anddragons. Up to the present saying that the use of animal imagery is generallydehumanizing, but the common use of apes is a metaphor, specificallyreferences calling your discourses of blackness, and this again comes fromtalking. Yes, so mattor high chapter, where you have the argument between theWawks and the Erk Hi, they say swine. Is it? How do you for lick being calledswime by the muckreck is of a dirty little wizard? It's all Quesh Tatle, Iwan so yeah they're putting down the the Goblin Hawkas as being sli and peoplike wheter. They say curse you you're as bad as the other rapple the maggotsand the heats of Sauron stacktower, no good trying to Charege with them. Theyjust squeal and Bolth. So humans are referred to as buks as Maggets ar inone instance, filthy alsboys see I'm not sure about the the AnimalAssociations E. Not because we're saying this comes more from the visualthing, which maybe he's Takin Kus from the Desan F jenthing bus in the bookand what young Pontsto as his only sort of animalisit Amanis is. He hasprotractable cause his ties into the conversation about the aggression. Iguess yeahbecause. Yes, he's course, hot out when he's threatened, yeah hasto like force the Makum. So I guess that is instentual. This is I mean thisis the zoo everyone has their adaptive responses. You threat like no one elsein the book. Oh yes, that's a pes. According to Dunges e donons throughcon Ho, I don't know if that's the one one. This is just one young talks about,but according to gems, an Danons tree, Ol, look like primitive humans withgreyskin cause, Har, stoped, postures, low foreheads and pausing faces withpromen with loercanines and have a nopon er. So this to me, this describesnot yeah purchase doing what does crachits not doing this? The artist ispor. CERDI is of Courseo. Now that I don't know, if not hever described inthe book as Havand. No it's just his es...

...and hes skin move is hot and short.Yeah Esoi he's not like a big birly dude SOEs he's non threatening as wellwees, not we're talking about thit and he's very polite, so that adds thatit's not just loloit's like a cultural, thingnchas being coltivated to Nottifiti yeah. He doesn't have the big like just the imminent violence that thegiant owks of Talken theare high half, where they're just imposing he's verynonthriatene by his shorte stature, which is interesting. YOUHG also sitsthe Asian American critic Sujkim, who criticizes the recial depiction of Awksin the pet backs and films who had brown faces, while that were Ohih weretall black and muscular. The long course here that resembled drect boks,some ofthe responsors PROB did video gametimes for a lot of the rentfills tofeature whiteskinned, ok and in Mada hobbit films are the Awkclearer Asog orthe Pale Wawk jus refer to, but never seen in the novels. He was included aswell a D and His relentless psuit of Thorn and the dwarvs is framed as apersonal vendetta, which is finmal significant him than being the bolvsound other. As young says, the Merve does nothing to undercap the raciallogics or change convessional representation of books. However, itdoes suggest that ihera evil is insufficient, has a murdivating forcein Eintoprin Heratives, so Hes, two thousand and twenty othercal Turrypatghets thought experients about the body. The hunger, an academic Peter,had argues. Presson emphasizes bodily differences as defining features ofSpece, so not race species. He points out that immigrant Vampie S, apporencebehavior, that is socially unacceptable in then you, environment, manly,pulting people and drinking their blood, and this behavior is not an sure ofcultural andition, but something inseparable from the Vanie Body. Ragtban has me to drink blood. We will talk way more about this, want to Git toCapa Jonnion, which is actually Cinin, have soi not in a year and about sixmonths, but there's a plus to not as well right. This is the couse thing. Isthat it's not a cultural condition, he doesn't need to be taught here. Wedon't kill people with Thoir Cause Ho've caught POTA and Li biologicalresponse yeah, but he then has to suppress, like he's been used as ananalogy, but the analogy doesn't work because his anenbodyment of a characterthat has been designed to embody these racial stereotypes. So you can't suvertthe Rasional terotypes when the character is the Mercial Seracaraciyeah, which is tolken from not praccets, but there's a limit to Hawe fall. Theseinvotions can go so I mean Hadre, says and responsilize that you have toremember th the book. It's not Mahalogy, it's just a tod experment. You can do oon to on yeah, but I think yes, Il exposets the limitations of Fanseri.This also leads us to the creation, veses correction conversation, so theSur of the obcration was actually a major concern for colpins, Christianintemporaries, so nhone hundred and fifty four letter to now Weventoson. Wetalk about next episode, but because I've now said we have to. We talkedabout her in e ast. EPSOD HAVTER put her yeah. She she's the author, butEpecial Iee, going where we're DOF yeah, so yeah sheand she'd been prefreadingAl The rings and were to Talkin with a number of Quans, including the issue ofOx Miserson Rote. Owks am no way clearly stated to be of any particularorigin, but since they are servents of the dark power and later of Sarah, andneither of him could or would produce living things, they must be correctionsnoting that they also awe a good deal to the God on tradition, so she'sputting out the connection Wi there. But this this is a Christian timg Ragt,because she has a book called Travel Lihely, which starts off really fuckingcool, because it's about a girl, Tek et's lost on the woods, an raisedbydragons right. It's like a DAS, GOI RMM and she cauts treasure, because thedriver Dey tar, yeah she's like warylike, come straight up again when Isay like Memoris of spatoand sort of has live stuff, that's in wethand, andarkness Ye it thity twenty years before et, say right: Righ, Lakeyo,Dragonso, that's really cool! That's the first PABT OF THE OORK! Then aprince comes work. RISCUE takes Abecta thing and it just becomes this dragons.She gets turned into a Christian FREATUR PLA. The BFG O Arsin competionT. Well, she gets sage for the Olfen new. She go and live with a B, F, Gand,O a tat, that's really cool and en, like she gets taken back in his LettCall Yeah Iin. I saw the movie like when I was a cute and IV now wer thebooks. I don't I they ad. The book deeply upset me because I was like whatis Yomone Richin youeer. I, but this is this- is the Christinadethat only God has the power to create. Yes, so similar P, these things, whowas the manager an a catolic book shop in Coxford? He Ro expressing hisenthusiasm for the all of the rings and but was concerned about truliadstatement that the dark word created the trols in the orks. He suggest thatevil wasnitcapable of creating anything and argue that even if it could create,if creatures could not have a tendency to do good, even a very small one, gushthese Catholics ipadentic it s almost like the Omatic Eso Talkin drafted, O Reqli to haytingsthat same Yoahou, I'm not sure whether he sentered or not, but in this drafthe says I think I agree about the creation by evil. But you are more freewith the word creation than IAM. Truvia does not say that the dark Lod createdthe chils, an ox. He says he made them.

You know that's a significantdifference en different El. He was a lingwith, so, okay talking, he says hemade them in counterfeit of certain creatures. Prett existing right, so hesaying they did make UN Wut the imitations of thinsadare Existin, not,but that means go t create an evil things. This is the esithe same yo anyes talking says there is to me a Wie golf between the two statements Sorro.I, the ED statement, could have possiblybeen true. It is not true actually of the owks who are fundamentally a raceof rational incarnate creatures, though horribly corructed, if no more so thanmany men to be met today. So here he's Goine back and forth. Agains like theyare created, but they were made. They weren't created they made, but they'realso corrupted so Toko can't deside what he thinks yeah. He also adds thatsuffering and experience, and possibly the brig itself, gave further moreinside pointing out that, in a lot of the ritens Ho will read his words toSam that the shadow that bread, the Ox, can only lock. It cannot make real newthings of its own. I don't think it gave life to the ox it only ruined themand twisted them in the legends of the other days, and it suggested that theDamalis subjugated and corrupted some of the earlier selves before they hadever heard of the Gards, let Lone of God so is being very specific andpegetic. Here so saying they existed in some form and then theyere corrupted bythe other. Fourth- and this is something he details- They Cretianle oxin somewhat realien right, which hes retenly had the time but wasn'tpublished until after talking's death Itotopi does an Thatin Soveny, oncesimwhere ly an gets Pos, one touand nine hundred nd. Seventy cent so tobinsreferring his arguments into a book, he's written that no one else has ratGSO. In the section of the coming of the LVES and the captivity of Melco andSimverilian. It says there is unhappy ones who were enscnaed by Melco who's,the first ACK Loyd little ist, nor enough CETTAINTA yeat. This is how true,by the wise of Arsia, that all those of the quaitty who came into the handsomAl Cor these's, a fancy words for alvs is the old racism ouse, but all Thoswho came into the hads of Melchol were put there in prison and by slow arts ofcruty were corrupted and enslaved, and thus did MILCO breat the hideous raceof Awks, an mbean mockery of the elts of who they were afterwards. Thebitterest fos this it may be was the bile teed of Melcol and the mosthateful to eliver. Tis whos they've got mi their threat, so her saying they're,not corrections of govlins in the corrections of alvs whic will talk moreabout olves in wo lace, yeah, okay, this this is actually the evidence fhathis distinction between man and cread right. They won't want nothing. He gotowls, which God had me and twisted them. Well, this is the problem, but thatthat still suggests we going back to the first letter. It still suggeststhat anewill force exist in the world that twisted them, which, if God can'tcreate evil and go Crete the world. How tof he evil fourh exist in the world?It's we're back to that again, but Wen. He can't get around that Fundamentaly!No, but I mean moving beyond that. If we can right I this what Satan doeslike, he turns the angels against God. Yes, and no yes, in the sense that he's a rhetoric is very corrupting, sohe turns he turns to be as of Love in heaven, and he says something like athe nrators ter, something like he pierced his breast or something withhis words. But there's also like the world shows youwes for the angels, likebecause a third of heavens host choss to follow things. It's kind ofambiguous right, hes, convincing them to his cause, but it bet bout like e.He makes it deliberately ambiguous is like Hallevl was saytaing. Did he washe alone the one who corrupted tha third of heavens, Ti Estor? Was It thata third of heavens host also recognize that there w's something up with God,but they weren't it's the poritical massing again and when they get there. Theresspeeches do indicate. Many of the speeches do indicate that they agreewith Satan. It's just it's unclear what the source of the disagreement is,whether not think of it's that teithe way what they're, just shifting, alonand they're not becoming another being right is that Correctono this wecauseagain, he Wen when he's in her. When he's in Hell and wakes up, it sayssomething of his former shape. He still retained aspert his former essence. He hadn't fully fall yet, but it's thesame thing did God? Did God Buget? That aspect of Satan was that olrenyinherent in Satan, tbut gold created Satan, so it'ssoit becomes linebobbling and por an I in result, yeah lothe te line when Santon goes off tocome to earth or Eten the other rebel angels. Are I'm wondering mad is wost.I don't know, I'm just saying the same thing here, obviously rigt, because Iwas going to say this: The seethingis they just come over a certain side, butthey're still the same people, whereas a they for twisted yeahyeah. Theyfothey do fall, it's a process. So at the start, in how sentence till retainssome some of his former glory but then het talks about, I think it's OmolikeI'll check this and we will put in the footnotes says you know it was an easyfault, so we should be able to easily rise up, and it's platonic physics,because if Youre, the Ess of angels is the is the highest the litest, so theyshould just be able to float back up...

...and what he doesn't recognize is thatthey have become follen so theyr now and how, at the very bottom, theheaviest they can't Soor Easonly, writes back aot makes them a beam, annot an angel is they have lost this essence yeah. They have fallen thecapital f away from God a they still tetan their powers like they can eitherexraassume and all of these things. But if I was looking at them it they lookthe SAMEM physically. Well, they can still shape shift and what is theoriginal, FLA proably yeah so say: Cetin Shakeship, soras, the snake esthe Lange on Charob, where it's all conout ther were like two visual, verydifferent things. To Lik at I mean the way they rebelate Os, Lo presented inhow, when they're having that councel, is ugly Andgar, O the Texol Se Blind. This is obviously the ideas thattoits playing with right, yeah so yeah, although I'm postd at the time talkingappeals to these passordis from the SIME wher LN INS, like the astings, anhe liberats that the oaks would be more e. that's an I from Alcolo Thee, thesame peson, the also be Morat's greates sins abuses of his highest Privilegen dwould be creatures, begotten of Sein and naturally bad. So he does say thatthe orks Ar inherently evil, although he clarifies that he nearly wroteirredeemably bad, but that would be going too far. It's calvanism m. YouON'to, explain what calvinism its good grief whatim on stune. Okay carbanism is the is the belief ofpredestination. Essentially when you are born whether or not you go to hellor Heaven, as already been established, there's absolutely nothing. You can doabout it and there's no frey will right so well. I guess this isn't Covinism,then, because he's saying they are bing, naturally there, but they can be redet.I nearly very irerdemably Benner, that's whyre. I said Cavadism, okay.Naturally, that is interesting, though, as well though, because it it suggest,you don't have any free will to be good, like you're, just naturally ban Ari,well TS, O thets, more original sit, rigt yeah, that's where I was goingbefore as well like humans are born after the fall, but then there'sAlthiys ovar about how they bona they bon. Naturally bad. Are they born thatthis is the calbonist like? But if you accept the your bom actually bad, youhave two option: video borne bad and you are always ar bad or Youare, bornbad and through your deeds. coarding yourself, that is the opposide ofcavenism els. I A reallyontals yeah, so yeah think tolkens Preachingaa Cathlic,which he is, and we back caus Lewis was like hey donn, come oven here to thefact Lik side and he was like yeah man. Just holking do anything: Fucas youTrou Seiouslos Isa, Il guy and no s rel nes, like he's in he's a middle Englishstude. So you know it was not real ou know he hadn't really get anything innoon that was liwisses, so yeah Talkin says he mearly Wer irredeemably badtbut T. I would be going too far because by eccepting or toleratingtheir making necessary to their actual existence. Even oxword become pan ofthis world, which is gods an Altimat, the good, but he says I haverepresented at least theox is pre existing brom beans on who the dark wodhas exerted the fullness of his power, an remodeling and corrupting them notmaking that to now. We said not making first before hi Mae Dawatlik. We thatisn't somer Reallyan, okay, IHE's, just a bad ealth fard, but the still anywayHo then sound ar frozing, with an Arbya wawolves to rata shit, Om, no man forElos, buppies Antelon, says the Gon Wul tolerate that seems no worse theologythan the toleration of the calculated tohumanizing of men by tients that goeson today, Youre Watin, it's just a lot of saings. No at no no talking secretlyof the Devil's Party and we've beenecall yeah nprobl Pocasyeah, he'ssaying that if men can be there, then Howk can be bad, which I mean he's sortof saying that even though alks he's haking his bet here, but he's sayingthat boks, I mad ancurrently sinful back, but it's through their choices,whether they're going obout on saying it wo. Not We don't see, he don't getany aks trying to make a notbad. Is it on o Mor? I feel like he just kind ofhe washes over this likein Presson in Prajic, yeah, so youknw he doesn'trepresent this. He is saying Mer. NOTT is a possibility within the Lov of theMetas right anen later, an unse draft of wete to Rit Aba whor's, an OishWolterad scholar, Crelai meve to Australia, became ELECTROC clossics AFin Casol univesity. I just like to throw those in thet. When I find outthese people are stratting bcause, I'm like Oh, we are close, scolet yeah,talking, Rogt a suppose, a difference between this mith and what may beperhaps called Christian mythology. Is this in Christianity? The fall of manis subsequent to an a consequence of the forward, the agels, a rebellion ofcreating freewill at a higher level than man, but it is not clearly heldany many variations not held at all, but this affected the world in itsnature, it was brought from outside by Sake in this mint. The rebellion ofcreative freewell precedes creation of the world which Havin it somecreatively, intuced evil rebellions, discording elements of its own aturealready. This is just saying that yesthey just saying, saing introduced,able or not as the world was created, Bith Evil in I god didn't. Prad peoplego couin the World San Introduce e Ol. My reading that right, yes right, Ogetheother is because he fell, O withon free will notdoes, say this, but thenforout. He complicates it by his...

...representation of God, who is a dushbagand well everyone. Everyone people can really get boind satains argument.Untill setting yourself becomes a a PA, critical tyrant, which is a problem.What is interesting about this? Is he talking about as I it's a Christianidea. This comes from MILTN, not t somebode who's right, who writes theproper story of the foll of the angels. It wasn't really anonized, it was Mida,it comes an Isia, but we finally Getin Asia, the full foll of Lucir for themorning staff, but that's really it everything else before that is justtalking it like saying, is used as a word of describing your ivertaries it'sonly after as I gon he starts to become like in entertain unto himself so he'sreally just talking about paradise lost, so we any saing talking O wroutanything about Cordos love. He did he just Ra out of the rains ere these letters that he ov Saes, likeno God is I'm ritindawmaybe, there's some stuff from a Gastan or equineusson this on the four of the angels. Also, they may be something honthist that Idon't know about, but it's Molton who canlize at all yeah. Yes, he's talkingabout that yeah, it doesn't matter if there's NAO before Becausei is OferMilton Ergo to no sor abot, yeah yeah, so we're asking if there's any suchthing as inheridaval, we are oin. This is where they conersaction begain, butthis is when they were a sort of concernd withand. This is what practicepimats are o redamable that I mean there's the question that's being partein Cantin academicals because they have to describe their h have to disguise otas a god one, because noone will believe that AU can be redicil yeah anthat's cultural prejudice, rather than prove or teology or anything, but it'sthere, yoikes Talkin Te, ok are individually inherently evil and agiven porse and direction by the imposition of a strongle will. Now.This is existence. proceedes essence e. You want et to go on Aran E en soesistence proceds essence is jump. Alsatra from exesentialism is ahumanism and is pretty much is summary for existential morality right. So ifGod is dead, which is the Axiomot of exessentialism, if there is nopreordaned destil for everyone, then people make their ow decision drattheir existence preceives their purpose wheres. If you have something like theexample, that's always been given to me as a pair of sisers. People wanted tocut something, so they made a parosisis. Therefore, the purpose ofthees the needfor the CISSORS preceded it's e, so when you create this is as they are forpay, whereas people just happen, if there's No God right. Therefore, therewas no purpose for people. Ther existence receive the ressence, whereasTe alrea saying that the awks in this World D and it tolpins well, I guessthey're like saysits. They are like sissorts. They wanted to cut somethingso they made it walk, O cut them and Wil Hes, saying yeah. Therefore theyhave te Popas, it's inherent to them. Well, not clearly, isn't tetnare wrong,Wele teare KINDOF gambles because he's the one who wants to redeem that anyway,Eso expeent, but it's interesting to see ther that if someone makes you fora specific purpose, are you beholding to that? No Right! No, I mean,obviously not you know. Theres omthe problem is Jus, not y you'll, be it'shard because you'rve been condition, you've been conditioned or you mighthave biological conditioning, but I guess the other thing there is that,even if you accepted is conditioning witout, the alks Hav been born intothis culture, conditioning that ar is saying that, just because they werecondition that way doesn't mean it's. It's ther, res'nt, Fren Applid afterwell, even though, like humanity like when you are born, the purpose of youreally exestentially is to create more humans, one more or another. Youracebas continue right, we cantobat short, but that e fine is like. We areso much more bat that, like that is not your purpose. Yeah. I mean this right,I'm not a Bany Breder, but I no. This is a whole thing or it's a wholething, but it's the same with that, like Butou Gon, O fight, but it's notmore ithe way. If you're saying that, I am Bon capable of producing people andI'm biologically compelled of producing babies- and I should be it's not thesame wit- someone desiring you for the purpose of the fineting, but I it'ssimilar and an hereovos against it in the same way that I rebal against babymaking so in the summer really in talking, also states that the offs hadlife are multiplied after the manner of the children of a Louvitar, so that anthis comes back to your baby. Making harmanically is that they were capableof reproducing is what seen there and nor that had life of its own. No, thesumlands of a life could ever Melcol make sense before the beginning. so He'saying all the off now like theyre, originally thes twisted corrupted als,but he ran ound of his power, for whatever is an couldn't make any more.So a alsohav these days ar thecendans walk, Stan O self made so now, ther EAexistence, prettyresn SA lit yeah right, there's. Also a reference to thecration of owks. Al Ther were high, at least in UNs, an epademicals and it'skind of sod. So when NAT is contemplatin the teller vats, but hehangs out with as a cemel sigmaker yeah pepetially bubbling and seeding so yeah.It says that people in the streets hade due to him that he been made in thevact. Although brother Ote had told him that this was silly but genlly Bobblintell her had called team. He felt a piece here was Kum observes and thats.The peasant was criticizing the picture of racing. The Ter Jackson films, theeuroi ofthe ot of the rint films, are...

...showing being harvested fully going fora MoD which takes some letort mot people yeah gons, but they were morehunting down to my people. Being here, I rusal swer. I I don't know about that.So much I mean anymore than the entire Boolk teingus is Ofpessun, but but I don't know if this is in in theBookas. I don't have time to reread the Lord of the Rings. I had to flickthrough the two tows and did some searches. I couldn't find any referenceto this hard ting, the Ro high in the actual Texof wather wring Ar. Maybethis is an invention for the the films, because otherwise this this is Sauranot so Cerahman at Asin God making the Orxi he is creating life there. I don'tthink this is in the book. If it is, someone can writin at Unseeng,academicals part Atgmailcom, and we can address this on our sois wrap uppodcastomer it Danbe Brich is Seris, be I don't know if that's book so not he'snot yeah Wer, he is Lwe, don't know why don't think there is any inherent evilrigt like leaving in the thos o S. Clo word, I guess yeah, that's fair! AllRight! I guess I'm sort of a caltenist or if I was spiritual, would have to bea com Wen as speakom. I don't know I'm working for this right now. It seemslike the options are either God te, termen Crola bad, an hat's, theco e.that's it's the it's the easy one ye but iff con, crit Freseno, whatever youwant. It doesn't matter yeah because, whether it God cute you or not, the theonly thing that can make you an harly evil is if there is a Gil who has madeyou inherentnein. Otherwise, everything is conditioning decision forappis, I exin yeah yeah. That's IT E. so, even though that's Ben made by the the darkqueen or whoever it was, unless you can specifically spin his soul to be evilwhich a tan she didn't, then there is no such sin as inherlabl. I isinm justmade to fiht that doesn't make the EO yeah and makes them going to find itcorrect. I think yeah we solve dogs, OOO perwe spent threee hours toSarfrantogo yea, a project said most of the Work Om discusses. She says:perfore highly problematic moves and are unable to escape notiv racialstereotypes even when they actively sick to Charleso. She says that themonstrousness, that alxsibody is always versial and Hes, always build on andthrough racessary hypes of blackness, even in works, which attemptsympathetic, politive, Potrat and their cultural explanations of WOK othernessdo not replace its handlin. Its underlying ritional structure, rathertha bills, OPONET andactions. Now this is sort of what weve been saying yeahand she argues that the project rites back to the culturals Orkof pronvention,by highlighting the fact that corialism and slavering actively seeks to erasethe culchures and societies as the people say dominated but does notremove underlying racial logics, yeah. So she's saying yea, anytime authorstrying to sing the Yorks have their own culture. This contra still based onSterotons mase. She does observe that precure that Voye, a vot e apassionreal world reference point to culture that silly not describing it at all.Rigt. We don't know anything about op Copnao, really because there is someoneright, not just the staft of the or Culturon chatrthe late yeah I mean tha.That itself is a lot of ten year. Don't have CULTUREAN LUST AV in Siviliand onMorpok, but all they're out there and we use, don't know anything about them,an not bout to start the Lotom one, but not can't remember anything, th otherthan being a fiter, Estra and stuff yeah, because he can remember the queenand he can remember the vats right. Don't knowther and they're saying thatthe battle of Awk steep was the last time the ox we use. So I think he'sbeen around okay, he's very old. I gess so he's your fet. Was a young okay,never mind, I'm not sure agin. This is a book wee rend, six MON Ogo. WhatDurno is is trrified right in so this way is to is not successfully asimilated or of should hen be assemrated into Morpol culture, becauseyounger is undersay. That now is the Brik walks into the rates ofcivilization generally follow a Pattenr of a simulation, but it is always ine,never fully realized within the text cunning out that even that alone, Awkdoes not stay inatmorpok. The Great Mountain part of the disworld, butleaves it to find the remains of his people. Saying that beings as diverseas werwolfs on these Vampires Gon, wors trolls and governs, have been fittedinto have more society, but also have no nation and even that never reappearsagain alfdancing activfles. Now. My first response to that is the othercharacters on a per evarat. This is won appression Osa, ety Bro, as he had onset teventiur and then died yeat. So you don't have any reappearances ofTrevor or joy. Do yet Glendo Shong up in Sience of disco, Fol, yeah, she'sworking as part of the kitchen stuff of the university, but that's about soasking. Should they be a simlated? Not they shouldn't have to banker. Is Helet's address this ideear of that he groes off is a young friendless as anadmission that books can't fit into the sidy bid. He's not ostrophized from thesociety. Righte well he's made the hero because he has to be the Heran ofthesodof be. I noweo o recognize, and then he goes off to well. The imvlication issave, but I guess he's going to find them and also bring them out of theidea that they have to fig out forever...

...or get then out of these events. It'svery ambiqulous, I think that's part of the problem mean tol me. This crutlyread, as I sawt of I mean the sort of two options: either he is going becaus.He needs to be part of his people and that's not a rejection. ATMOL Perestn,that's the ECKNOWLEDGEMENT that there are or cultures that are more vailuable.But to me it reads: More given preciicet do judgment, Solf, Orout, Tabook an reads more as a what the word masshonary something yeah he's going toGe, find the alcolonize that had colonize them and bring them into yeah.But again it's ambiculous. This went of Shor it', yeah regardles of whether hesays in the city. I think he's kind of a med point that youngs maybe put intoo much empasis on I mean I think, the end of the book. He has been similatedinto the SI people. A T ne he's yeah he's acting the way they want himto act, he's only accepted Ose, the culture after he is molded into thatculture, an they don't ecept, not as he is cept, a not who has suppressed hisnatural Lin of tendencies and behaveor like humans. They don't accept a analthat just comes down. I mountans you have to behave like us, I think that'sTilsomilater, but yeah. I see you point becaus. They talk about like you've gotTa Como Israi there and a similite you've got a ded the line. If you getin Anand, where you have to hur a croicket and football toos that yeah,we don't know, Cokin O fotball, I football trigger, but this is AK. He is.He is part of the people because he knows football. Yes, yeah, Oh andsomething sort of yeah give Tine onto the conversation about assimilation andalso forecusing hed to Cupa jog on set the macarin la saying that she hasnothing against fair, plays just so long as they keep themselves tothemselves, and she says: We've got one working down the Corsha butches in ourstram she's as Nice, as you like, so I'll, have a ran about, have even verpis when we get to cap e Jog n. But again we hade this idea that the Varplyers have to siakeep themselves themselves, all right, which issomething again. We've been talking now on some of the future podcast that youcan hear about Mannis, not many Granni, weather, axe, sort of conservatism hereand we'll talk about this and which is abroad, which is becoming my tangline,with the idea that different coaches, different fancy, courtou shoul keepthemselves to themselves is something that keeps coming up through. Thesebooks are, despite projucs, Wanng, to incorporate all these different racesand things he heis repeatedly putting in these people and again I don't knowwhether theyre meant to be like women to be frowning upon the maccaron. Ladynotic in this context be arbut. At the same time, she sort of the everyday lotof castlay that Wen mentoy simplerthising with so I'm not sure,and it's kind of funny, the wiy she's talking about Ma Pi like that, it'sfine, yeah yeah, it's just theyre, applying a real world paing onto fancy,but he's not putting the twist on. I yeah, just that's, not ting a racistperson. Wul saying again, this is the problem I have especially with thelater bookss, not the TITR, but this one as well. That cultures are onlyaccepted if theyre our comtions wer. This isn't actually an acceptance ofAucaus good. This is an acceptance that walks can act like not bawks yeah. Thatitself carries the Tome idea that bodis back to Mikeanwok Yeah yho yeah. No, Ido I'm just like thinking about otherwise of thinking of wheter theResoni about, I guess Heyin like I think. If pracket was here, he tells usthat he was trying to humanize, I well. I think you ou, like usinbut, thenagain, humanizewere butting up again against the limits of fantasy. It'slits like okay, so somi keep going t stuff, but stuff is terrible when it'sabout actual goblins and they're only incorporated into society, and I musing incorporated her because they can sing bit they treated like crap andthen one of them sings really well survives is like. Oh, my God. They Senso beautifull day are worth protecting. RIL and Manyoi'll. Read thers ev an gowhile it's mos black and wites this. But at the time I was remember, Gongwhatso they're not worth preticting anyway, like bines just doesn't wantPROTEC O for the second es like saying rabbits can't you know, so we have toeat them. Well, yes, if you want to go down that hi, but even just withincultures, that racist people say true, we don't even need to get out O at WS,yeah, yeah yeah. So there's that, but we do get a bit of this in useeingacademicals. Where not is obsessed with the idea of worth? Yes, so he's onlyhes, not vaable as a person himself he's ARY Vailable. If he creates tocreat wit, ICAN, it's a bit more complicated in Ain because in snuffit's just we can sing. Therefore we are creating worth. We are worth somethingthafferent petees in Ansi Acemicals, it's a bit more comflex bit money oncebecause not Thal clenda that he wants to go back to the Countess so that theCINOL. However, it was because she gives him worth she said, Havs nothingand she gave me worth. I was nothing. I knew nothing. I understood nothing. Ihad no understanding. I had ner skills anglinsas. That doesn't mean someone isworthless, and that says it does. It does mean they're worthless, but itdoesn't mean thay're bad. I was worthless. She showed me how to gameworth and now I have worth and he not defines worth as leaving the worldbetter. Then the wher you soundet is that him defining. It, though, is thatwhat he's been told to define a AD Orewok, but I think the IMPORTANTTseory says just because you undersod nothing doesn't meanaf worthless, butit doesn't mean you bad. I don't know...

Hes sying people are inherently evil,but he's also saying thatthey're worthless. Unless you actively you'vegot to it's it. lmost like Antat, tapeof, Christienity, you've got to doactive you going to be actively go. If you can't just be passive, that doesn'tget no mean, there's a whole circle of health for those people, but there'salso the implication here, like just the term worth right, like Havyocontrubute to the world. No, how you worthless, yea, there's a mybak yeah.This is like our home was people jobwas people, wheother people were passinggirl. He contributor, whatver, yeah, so Evennin Alibera, point of view, as lookat that and say well, there they're, not contributing, and that was sayingwell they're, not contributing with that doesn't mean. They're inherentlyevil but implied in that is, is the idea that they still shouldn't beprotected. They still shouldn't be given. Anye under Solo sees this as aproblem. I mean this is where we get this uversion, because to me thediscort series is kind of saying you need to create worth. You need tocontribute something, but then you have Glenda who is meant to be the mostintelligent, relandable peson in the story telling us that he's kind ofbroken he's obsessed with this idea of worth, but he's always making thingsbecause is if worth is something that drinks away all the time so that youhave to keep topping it up, and I can't tell whether prajec saying yes, this iswhat Worthi s you need to work all the time. It is good that that is toppingthisis up or pretury. Saying working is good that you have worth everythinghappen. Yeah, I don't know, I have anything yeah a we haven't solvedmorality, Dam t, that is the OK conversation over yDoy, Tok TNO major tem of the book is psychonalysis. Oh, do we care aboutpsychooels fucking hate saonalsis, it's stupid when Ou Relye? I have nothing tosay about it, just that it is a sort of an ungoing preoccupation afprecunt. Heis always making olitions to psychology. Yes, syk when, as is Nin- Yes, yes, Oproblem that like referring to psychoon else, yes, what apenpsychology equal ruts like thes, the Aology, wellhydology Longo, Mor hes refeences to forty and psychonalsis is not the stuffTano Ik Simpe riht he's playng with that. So this is, I don't know ifprecits ever saying anything about psychonosis, it's just an image that helikes to revisit and Yeah Byes. I tend to sympathize with our supervisor, Patrick Rosinis, blog in civilization, and it'sdiscontents fraid argues that putting out a fire by urinating. It representsa sexual act and the controlling this desire is an achievement. A herosexualmaciculane victory of culture, open nature, which is borth without aprototype and impossible for women, which Patrick says, tells you a greatdeal about Foreid and Heincredibility, and very little about fire and thecapacity of women to Euronate. I- and I don't know if I C never agree withPatrick more anay. I do gon say yeah, but EEP at trick has patrack all right.This is it final section which is not called Miss World yet, but will be hesfucking, TMI thougt? This was going to be a thing, but it wasn't msceniousyeah, it's like, Oh for now, just the miscellaneous section did you haveanything you can remember, because you heard the Bwook six months ago, yeahyeah, so I do I did want to point out because it bugs the hell outof is thatthey say that there is nothing pink in the Coendar curiosities, but then itproduces a bakon sandwich and be in Thi spink. So I just want to put that outthere sloppy stuff, there's also the whole thing aboutArandomus. Do you remember this Wong to the bottom of this Arasmas? I did I Culd I did get to the bottom of it. So there's Dr Orvamis, and this is someonman. Poner stitens is reading the book of Traditions, there's professor hfpoander and Docor Aratamis, and I wanted to know what the significance ofthese names were. Polondo is apparently a German seevlas best. Sorry, I don'tknow why hat that's a reference, so I thought this was a reference to Orasmus.There isn't Aresmus in the DISWOR WHO 's the great uncle Ot Miss Mrs cake hato eat. His nails under the table due to be HALFWAYWORF, which is mentionedin Recoman, but there's no connection there whent down major rubber hole.With this I was doing Justa randomiss and all I got was Annagram and scrabblesugesten. So nothing and I realized yeah, it's a Plann, a ratem. So imtermistake, it's a freaty ear. Sorry, THAT'S AIE! SRONWHAT is the significance of this.Oh, this is where you get to come in because I nowc that is one of thecharacters on the football team is hurry. CAPSTIC and you a Ame, is Aliscat. Stick my address, is you bet that o clos pom I y everything is prey determined thereisonly important. Do you want to extralate in the meetingof the NAN cuptic? Yes, O my grandfathers go a love. Genealogy work,ohay figured it out, but it was to do as woodcutting and blacksmithing and aVaria ofitis coached Stak, which means would cut up yeah. Well, I'm I lookingfor the definition of capstick, and so you know you could gowith you enough on ancestrycom, and I says it's a Lonkashire and Yorkshireorigin is a varian of CURP Stak. As you said, N occupation on eganfor wouldcomer from the old French couper to cut...

...pos the middle, an the shit stark,stick or Sak or pinestake, and I told you this and you went yeah. My mygrandma said that yeahaothat and H put it on for on ancestry Y. Did all thatwork he's pretty cool yeah Ferno, that's Harry capstick, but your broYeah Nice, Red Headid, min well Harry Folle, Ri cold is a petform of Henry,so it's geal from Hane whichon fom Os Rick, which is a Pahl law. So HAROCDCAPSTIC is the king woud curer a Hea Alie, which does I mean wite Jub, nowcay out of the whichis, with Tii podcast, for the record is a Frenchversion of the gem Avil hired wetens nobility. So you are noble wood car,BUT NOT NOT TE KING! Well, this migt get cot as well, but I just want toShat Haut the scene. Wer Getni tells Rit coli that he says I see Yo when Ilwook in my shoving mere it is philosophically present everywhere inthe universe, an order apparently to highiut the existence of good. I thinkthere wis an war to this theory, but I tend to bes Tay laughing at this point,and I just love this because the idea of the greeval balance in fantasy driseup so I just like Seeng Projec, prok fun of it to Ta Sar Wa Right. Why do weneed the darkside yeah just have o Ghod side, so good snow, re, Oly Good Time,Xici Nuts Everon absoat has been the first episode. AFVOUCING academicals,it's been a bit of an ardeal, but thankfully the next two we've done havegone a little bit smitly, my maybe not Wen sister, so much with the hoscitalvisits and everything. But so yes, now, if everything is gone to plan, you arethis episode and the next episode on equal rigths will already be out andthen next month you get the wed sisters, one or if you cant wait to, then youcan throw u some money on the doctor. PROMETHEUS podcast Skateoon bage andget it a full month in advance and Wer clar. That's all for this episode of UNTINEacademicals the'll be another one along in a month, but if you can't wait untilthen you can sugn up to our patro hage and get all the episodes of full monthin advance, along with any bernus episodes or specials. That end, I'mdoing if you're after more of US alice host her and podcast of the debil'sparty, which traces the development of the Cotanicera forg out romantic andGothic literature, and you can find me reciding the pots of hollor movies topeople who are too afraid to watch them themselves over on the skatty cards,thinks to a bibly other fe. For today's show, along with the fully reference toFootno, the transcript should be available in the episode description.Thanks for listening and stay change, some amusing attics, I dodn't know what a Golden Duckes fora record so ionly after I asked aftorheecame oe from pricks, likewhatever Lak you know, background wasn't. Funi was like what the fuck isanyway. Hi on there were ducks like w golf must run. You through Alero at that tem. I think I'm GOINGTO getthis wrong, but I think it's on te three on e part: It's like throughotThepon, w o on the her Oso S, hepuls Unti Hethe, en of the OI. I just don't know, and if referencsa happy gibl I knowjust Likeo OKAYRSTAD SOMU Satethi, don't care about stortwas I qayin whatmandrew Rayman in his boofancypolitics and poducts Oshstinthis idea of the moment calledcalled cold to Hamton Om, know well, oe at as we find out he's a cane, I'm justtrying t elsthis is relevant Nonoo, but in itit's like it's Sett in a Disturpian world and all this is on looks bad. Soback every time I went into the liverfood I was leaving like thisislike. A female lead is someone else right where it's like. We put spiderman and Anand Skywalker Bill. Yes, NIC jois is that I workot hes wt BITstoolis, also sometimes on horses and they live in a forest, and this likeprety indusfral, world and they're, just like pobbling around, but the bitthat doesn't work for me as I'm like it's Nick Jonas, his hairs, Donn hesnails a Dow like he's Al op. Nobody is fold by this it'. A skinny little manhe's like controlling horses. He's not controlling mosses lik be fup, so thatwas so. You heard it here and say: Tat Can eols Nijur Thats Categora, not afeelbe Ol...

S, ds o he filty horseboys Loet' cofanayneer ONA berst plan,although I did have an idea for a drag character called rece with the sword.That's se good! I think I'm now committed to a EP. That's very funny,tod yeah good. So I want to do a bit of camp out onthe the potrayal of of gender politics. If you're ready for that O Somra foryour do it Owas can you handle it, you had to say Josh. Can you handlethis? What's this from Ru Fall Nos sitce,prety Wi? Ah, I wer anything to spit out a Ri on the bare pits at the end,but pret fidulations anm think I'm ready for this jelly. This is disinsCharg, I'm not making some weird just look at any landy. I'm Young.

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