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5A – Lords and Ladies - Part 1

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The first of two episodes on Lords and Ladies (1992), covering
quantum continuities, simulacra warrior queens, performative dressing,
glamour, the ethics of borrowing, vegetarianism, pagan landmarks, horny
gods and more!

Referenced transcripts: independentresearcher.academia.edu/JoshuaBulleid/Podcasts  

Contact: unseenacademicalspod@gmail.com 

Alice's other podcast, Of the Devil's Party: https://ofthedevilsparty.sounder.fm/ 

Support: patreon.com/doctorprometheuspod  

Tis This I so I'm Josh and I'm Alice Yeah you'reon how this Gurson, where are the unseen, academicals correct, and thisepisode we are finally talking about a book- that's not, which is abroad.We're going to talk about the fourth book in the witches series, thefourteenth one overall, which is Lords and ladies wherein we return toShakespeare as Pratchett's witchy traor must defend the Kingdom of Lankaagainst invading elves and a waning respect for fur claw a while planning awedding decided to do this. You have to plan a wedding. No, no that is quite ato do. Is Oh okay, yeah! So this one it's like, I be a three part up, but itis going to be another two parter, so we'll be saving most of the Elfdiscussion for part two. So this episode we're going to be totally onour bullshit as we use the book to Explore Quantum continuities, similarco, warrior Queens, performative dressing, Glamor, the ethics ofborrowing, vegetarianism Pegan, landmarks, Horny, Gods and more- and Ihave a baron I care so so in honor of the Rupal strages recap: podcast I'dusually get you to name two things you liked, and one thing you did not aboutthe book, but I'm going to go first, this time because Alice, I love thisbook. Okay, okay, all right, you have it so much yeah. As I was telling youbefore we started I've almost finished a complete rail rate of the discordseries. I've read everything about small guards and the the death booksbecause they're the next one was we're doing so, I'm saving them. So I don'tdouble up, but I've read everything else, and I think this is my thirdfavorite disco book after Piet of time and and small guards which I haven'trevisited yeah. I really like this book. So I'm a little bit affranchies to seewhat you think about it. If I have to narrow it down to two things, I likeone things I do not one thing I really like is the writing. I think this is areally well written book. Definitely like he's hit, he stride after some ofthe earlier ones we've been looking at. I just I can't point to anything inparticular. I just think this book is incredibly well written and just reallygood. The other thing I, like all the elves.I think this is I've- read a lot of stuff about elves, not a lot that we'regoing to talk about actually, but I've been reading, some other fantasy booksabout albs and things, and I think this is my favorite to Picton of elves. Ireally like him, I think it's a cool twist and there are other books thathave done you know twist on elves and stuff, but I'm a Sucker for a Dark Elfright, sim me out for Hellway to or even thought to I'll get into it, but Ireally like the depiction of elves in this book. As far as things I dislike,I had a really hard time finding anything I dislike about this book andI narrowed it down to your smoking like you've got a I've, got a whole Atene,but I've narrowed it down to that. There is one other thing that I justlike about this book that we'll talk about some point, but as far as the onething, I think just does not work. I do not like the lion. Go ahead, make myKish, I don't like it. It's Corny, and alsojust that's not when dirty Harry says make my day. He wants them to do thething so that he can react and Magat's. That's not what she's doing when shesays that I just I just think it's a bad line. It doesn't need to be there.It doesn't appreciate. There's no twist, I hated that line and he's used thatelsewhere ye in the other books, because what I'm learning going throughthem is he recycles a lot of jokes and things he uses the go ahead. Make myday thing like a lot. It seems to be something he returns to. So I feel likeit's a bit cheap, but that is about the only thing I don't like the other thingI don't like that. Just to set it up. Is I don't like the foot note abouthill at the end and the taming of the shirt, but there is a there's like twosentences in this whole book that I don't like Alice. Please do ting youlike a rat one thing you did go well, I'm gonna put your as because I alsolove this er, the books that I have re read as an adult human, becauseeveryone should breviter tractors, and this has been the most compelling onethat I wanted to return to on my breaks at work when my brain was basicallyfucked. I enjoyed reading it in the break room I enjoyed reading it on thetoilet and secret. I enjoyed running away from my partner on the one callsto finish this off side. I complained to you when I opened it up that it wasfour hundred pages, because I had marking and is so much to do that atthat point time, but it was a welcome retreat from everything else. I verymuch enjoyed the actual book groun. I also thought what really worked quitewell, for it was the fact that it was very contained just in one communityand the relationships between people and that community. I think, as well asthe writing. That was a real different. What we've seen so far in terms of twothings I like in one thing, I did not I've broken the roles but Kayser Istonite it's true. I really enjoyed the characterizationof Barents and Magrat and their relationship and the way page wasexploring. You know what a King looked like and what a queen looked like andtheir ideas of what it should be and them trying to achieve those, but indoing it actually bringing something much better than the traditional viewto the table. So you know, verance was a fool, but now he's actually being agood king, because he's buying books to...

...figure out what a king is and thenputting that in to practice. The other thing was in terms of theirrelationship. It takes it. You know to the part that happens after the kissand challenges the Romatic Zation of you know, love between royal people andshows the reality of it and then finding each other, which I foundreally nice, because as a little child you're exposed, particularly as a girlchild you're exposed to all these stories ofyou know you kissed Prince Croney and then that's it and you live at La overof to, but it you know it went beyond that. The other thing I enjoyed was theShakespeare and comedy scenes just because I'm a ace for a good chickencompany scene and every time you know etcet or the weaver and plumb or thebaker or whatever we're on a having a good time. I particularly like I don'tthink much of my part. It's too small and it's his, but I have other jokes. There are acouple of things: well, one maid thing: I also really like Casan Anda, butwe'll come back to that. is He your dark hero? He is okay. I didn't likethe references to our world there's a reference to Poland, there's areference to Yankee doodle in a crowd of baron, Atlanta and Lady Jane, as inLady, Jane Gray. I think he stuck that in under the radar, because he talksabout her as an evil, tempted gray falcon with the Falcon Guy. It was abit on the nose. I was like pick a world. You can't stop my car, stop it!That's that's it. I mean, I think he justifies that stuff in this book,because you have the quantum things but we'll get to that, and I'm glad thatyou did certain casing over research, because that is something I went to goand research and then just bailed out of because I wasn't really findinganything interesting. So if you ever take on him, I'm yeah just more as aBironic Guy, more than note Casan over thing, but yes, okay, I think Tassaudis interesting. We've talked about BIRONICO and dog cares a little bitalready on the podcast, interesting in the sense that it's making a joke aboutthe dwarf. Being the guy who thinks you know he can grow so over on else'sstandards, which is perhaps a bit mean obviously- and he really hints it offwith many of, but his attempt at flattery and wooing of her playing intothat traditional idea of Casanova as a sexy cat who just kind of corruptswomen by nature, if he's sexiness. But I think what is actually interestingabout cousin under is to his relationship with any oh. He becomesredeemed by on a cure because he's postering about telling all these liesand make a these stories trying to represent himself. I think consciouslytrying to represent represent himself as a rakish bironic figure, and then herealizes that he doesn't have to do that through his relationship withnanny og, who just likes him for whom he is and become for deemed and fallsback on himself a little bit more and the step flitter yeah back. He sort ofparallel my gradin that way right. He drops the facade yeah and I reallyliked him as a character, because I mean he's just a character. That'scompletely drawn from upon, like project came up with cassonade is theopposite of Casanare built the character out of that. Like all of this,it's just like us, like yeah, yeah funny fellow yeah. I sort of rememberhim, like Seana, coming back in some of the later books as well, but he doesn't,I think, he's briefly in Cape Jug Yam, but not really a also. I want to thankpeople for the fan, make or keep saying that the specific we like Ellis Fan Mail,yeah yeah. So I gave an outline of theepisode of the start, but, broadly speaking, next part is where we'regoing to talk about Shakespeare and elves. So we're not really touching onthat here. So much and then this part is about everything else, but as always,we want to start with a bit of the novels critical reception. So this is abook that Andrew an Butler gives four out of five in his pocket essentialsguide, calling it one of the less satisfying which novels but still goodstuff, which yes, hard disagree for me. I disagree also yeah. What do you meanless satisfying? I was most satisfied yeah, given that he gives weird sistersfive out of five, so obviously we're on different ends of the which projetspectrum there rollin green from bookless conversate called it aparticularly excellent example of diskoid, saying it's only drawback wasthat when a Plat to as large a body can, as this novel affords preches light,Tony is a little unsettling, but otherwise the book is a superiorexample of Projet immediable, seemingly endless fertile wit. So bit more on thesame page with that one and another thing I do appreciate this book is kindof the darkness and the violence of it, which ties into the betrayal of theouse yeah. I think it's really cool, but then I think it works because it isbounced out by the humor right. Yeah Magrat, who we're going to talk about,is like she's, a stern cold killer, yeah, but also she's, this ridiculous,wet head in in a armade from pots and pans. I think the balance there reallyworks for me also in the newly Nebula award, winning two tousand and twentybiography. The magic of Terry Project. Mak Borrows calls this book a fanfavorite. So it seems like it has a reputation, although he doesn'tdirectly discuss it anywhere else in the book and even then it's onlysetting it up as a prequel to the final dust card, novel the shepherds crown.So the focus in that book when it comes to the which is is on weird sisters andwhich is abroad. So as much as this book does seem like it's liked, ithasn't got as much critical attention...

...to some of the other ones. I guess it'sbecause it's focused on being a good story and there's stuff in it for theother. He trying to do other things. Like he's a l Choi Explosive Yeah. Wewant to do fairy tales, but here he's like: Let's do a story with dark als.It'll be fun like that. That's the difference, but when you say which is abroad of weird sisters, which I know from a ivint this I keep swapping thosetwo I call granny manny and I call which is a broad weird is sis. Thoseare the two things I do, but something I like about this book of them, and themany things is that I think this is doing what weird sisters thought it wasdoing. Yeah Ange the show with the Shakespeare things, at least becauseit's doing something new and interesting. It's not just rehashingyeah. We don't have this objective view of graddy sitting there going. That'snot how things happened. She's in the story that she's working at from within,I think that's very cool, and this book is also probably one of the reasons youliked it. Maybe, although you're one thing you dislike so is maybe not isthis is where the the continuity of the series really kicks in yeah. So, in areal author now at the start of this book, Preche acknowledges that at thispoint, fourteen books in previously the dust well books, we went to just be-they stand alone things that they were all in the same universe, but it wasjust sort of a setting for him to go and right these different adventures.At this point he couldn't ignore the history of what had gone before. So heuses this quantum idea, I think, to sort of fudge over some of the previouscontinuity discrepancies and in fact in when we were talking about that and theprevious episodes, I said I couldn't find anything that suggested projectwas writing these stories in slightly parallel. universes he's not, but thereis a famous a quote or semi famous quote, attributed to project from theold message boards where he says there are no continuity errors in discworld.There are only parallel, universes, okay! Well, THAT'S A cop out! We allknow that a he's acknowledging that, like he's not that he's not doing that,but he is using that to fudge over, and here we get that actually built intothe fiction where we have ponder coming and explaining the Te Quantum theoriesand granny weather wax, because she's so tapped into the world and she's, sosmart, intelligent picking up on the quantum residences from our world. Sorather just being this implicit influence in weird sisters whereMcGrath about the pricking of her thumbs. But she doesn't know why hergranny can actually see you to our well to pull these references and she usesthem against the ALF Quin. I. But you didn't like that. I didn't like theexplicit references. The quantin thing is cool, but he's using them to explainother things and it's the Narada not granny, and that bothered me or okayright. Yes, when it was the narrator voice, Lake with the GORMA stuff inequal rots, yeah yeah. So we do have some like Nonquitt. There isacknowledgment that granny has been to Unseen University a couple of timespreviously on this by the way rid Curley says that there was a weatherwexation a few years ago. Do you reckon that ask no? No. That is because youhaven't reread the other books that is there's a as transella weather wax inwell. This is one of the ones you've read that a cat or an sen university inthe light. Fantastic is a wewak, so he's reuse, that name for whateverreason. So here with the pulling the continuity together. That's himcreating an explanation for that going on it's my distant cousin, which Ithink is inconsequential but also sort of implies that, like there issomething genetic that witchcraft yeah yeah, so I plays into that a bit so inher Phthisis, weird sisters and wild women that we've talked about a bit.Definitely Antonio lowes observes that from most of Lords and ladies GrannyWeatherwax as greatest struggle is not with the Quen of the elves, but but theintrusion of memories of alternate lives pointing out that the only thingthat could defeat bes me, weather wax is to make her unsure about who andwhat she is. What do you think about that else? Yeah, okay, I fell o herline well because, which is which is abroad, ended with her saying it's me,I'm the real one, she's so sure of us of Weres here or identities beingfractured yeah yeah, but yeah. She still pulls the same trick by sayingthat when rid cly's hang out could have been different, which, where do youthink of when ride? She goes no went right here. Re so she's stillovercoming this with like her self assuredness and it to jump on quicklywith the feminist perspective as well. It is nice to say a woman, a strongwoman in a fency novel that didn't settle, and you know, followed herdreams and did the hard thing which was to leave the safe settled life and dosomething else. It's good to see that and that it worked out, although fromanother point of view and we'll talk about this, when we get to masquerade,which is where we're going to go into the maiden mother and the CR in thetrouble goddess is that grandy weather AC is so powerful because she is aVirgin Cron Daftar, but also it's playing into the idea of sex beingimpure. Well, I like it here all right here in yeah and in terms of this gradyweatherwax sorting my self assurance as laws observes, the young ESMEweatherwax is saved from the temptation of the Queen of the elves. Why her ownsuspiciousness about any outside force, demanding her trust? The Queen of theELVES, are saying I'll, make you power and she saying no, I'm going to do itmyself, so that I still Walgett that theme of Self Assurance Self Identity,self confidence being the ultimate power. I guess, and it being in a womanwhich is nice just going back to that...

...is just in Manford. I was just readingrereading then for the other day and he's saying no, no, the witch the Alpsand a are like. No, I will not bow down. I will get a start back myself, but Iat sees as a woman, but it's always meant it's very rarely. Women women arealways the temptresses right. This is part of the witch trials is whenbecoming which is by being tempted by alms and demon. So it's a an inversionof that. I guess the kind of stuff also gives us a glimpse of what the worldwould be like if granny weatherwax never chose to be a witch. Indeed, itis and lords of, ladies that we learned that she did choose to be a witch,rather than being naturally destined like squas to be a wizard again, thisthis sort of Contra country, Dick stuff that we get in labors like at the endof Carpeau's, implied that she's the descendant of Black Alice, as wementioned before the TI in with US chance of a Red Collie that there issomething to. If not genetics, I mean it said that long Ko is somewhere whereyou get lots of witches and with its coming from there's something naturallymagic about the area and the land itself. So I'm not sure how much creditwe can put into well granny whether act just did it all through hard work whenclearly she's predisposed. But it's a mix, it's a soup right, it's complex,but no. I really like this. I really like learning, at least in this bookthat Granny weatherwax chose to be a witch that she was knocking on the door.Saying teach me how to be a witch rather than the being picked by the thecovers. She wouldn't go home, which he she camped out in the garden andwouldn't leave until she would teach it on the net, because you made a pointthere about the nature of notice stuff, but obviously there's always lots ofthat, but there's more of that in this book again with CASINAE who they godown into the caves and nanny's making fun of him and says I was born and wellborn. But you know I'm not one and then, as they go further down somewhere inthe back pocket of his jeans, we get the High Ho high herb. So Patrick keepsfootslogging forth on this. It's good to see that he's mixing the two up andshowing us that it's a suit but yeah, interesting yeah and when Magratdeclares that she has given up witchcraft. That's because she doesn'tthink she is a witch in the bone like granny and nanny. So there is thisimplicit idea that you have to be disposed to it because even later inthe tiffany aching books, she sort of does the same thing: She's, retreating,granny, weather, waxes, steps and they're saying oh well, you would havenever been chosen. You've done this all through your free will, but at the sametime, tiffany aching is very much predisposed to witchcraft. So I mixedmessages about that. It's complicated yeah, just what we say when we don'tknow how to resolve something that is it's complicated it! That's it yeah,but I'm not quite satisfied because it's like less of a like a F, fifty ora mix. As he's giving you a hundred percent of birth ready so powerfulbecause she chose because she suffer to serve but she's, also so powerful,because she's Black Alice's descended so he's sort of going all in on bothsides, rather than it being a mix of the two but Magrat while she might notbe a witch in the bone, keeps being the fucking coolest Kis. Mc Grat is asimilar caraway queen and that's sick, a shit you're, not in yeah son, likeyour boton keeping CIOTAT. Do you think about how Cavotte on this yeah it'sexciting? It's good shit. She puts on the eye and she's bad asses, how I lovethat for her yeah, so she takes on the character of the legendary warrior,Queen Yancy, who never existed in whose armor was made from many ogs old potsand pans of it, and this is playing with an idea that ties in with midsomerstream, which is Queen Elizabeth Right. The Elizabeth and Fairytales QueenElizabeth was associated with the Fairy Queen as well, discuss in part two, butQueen Elizabeth, also famously War Ama, while addressing British Tutoo atTilbury Yeah. So she addressed the she want, I'm a while addressing the troopsto tillery while they were getting ready to repel the Spanish Amana,although of course Elizabeth, never fought herself and apparently didn'teven put on the helmet had a page carry it behind her, but she addressed thetroops. And what did she say else? He said I know I have the body of a weakand feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king and a King ofEngland too yeah. So, even even in doing this she's yeahthat great. But it's good, are you like in it, because I was really put off bythis, even though I know I have the body of a weakened, feeble woman.That's saying that yeah! I don't know Elizabeth knows that she's we'll talkabout this one. We do with Fairy Queen next next episode, but she knows thatyou kind of have to play into the bullshit in order to get them outside.So she does- and I I know, I'm a fever, woman but watch me also completelyundermine that stereos that es, but also she didn't actually fight. So Icorpl Shit, I don't think she would have been allowed to, but yeah I meanshe's Queen. She should have been a land to well as Antony a frazerdescribes it in her book Bodices Chariot, which is all about warriorQueens, and I do recommend shaving that at if you're more interested in thiswell, while she did Don Ama, she was still playing off her femina delicacyduring the address. So she wore a silver plate curious, but it was over.A white velvet dress, the earl of Lester described this armor is castingher as the most datin secret thing. We have in this world to care for so she'splaying up, rather than being the strong warrior Queen is leading thecharge. The armor is more protective. It's like Look Iam, this delicatefemale and this white velvet dress that...

I need your my armor right or trip or aarm o rather than a sword. I guess is the implication there. So it's notquite this queen wizt characterized herself by playing into the idea of thePatrica lover you're familiar with this, I'm not so the petrokine love. It was aform of love, poetry, obviously begun by Petrak and then used it. It was verycommon at this time and it would put the woman on a pedestal essentially,and the man would devote himself to her as her slave and her servant, and youcan beat me up- and I put my coat in the mad for you and that sort of thing-and it was almost a way of consoling the woman for the fact that you knowonce the marriage who was trapped in slavery forever. But it was a way ofcreating this. This woman, who was at once desirable and to be feared, Okeand a strange kind of paradox and she played into it a lot and a lot of theliterary representations of her use it as well, Spencer, obviously a lot,which is why it came to mind. But others as well- and I think there'ssomething to this again in that she has to present herself as formidable, butalso desirable and she's, constantly having to balance that out in the wayshe's maintaining power, because obviously they didn't have policeforces and they didn't have security teams and things like that, so to keepthem from assassinating her and other things other shouldn't Niggas. She hadto have this public image hip as at once desirable and also for boating. SoI think that takes us a little bit further along explaining her choice ofama yeah. Now that's an interesting take because yeah, I guess I waslooking sort of down on olds, but then I do know that you played into herfemininity lit and had to balance this and was getting a lot of criticism. ButI saw this I mean obviously it's manipulative, but I sort of not notreally doing what it says on the tin or the Iron Curio, so to speak, but also,although the warrior, the idea of the warrior woman, the way of Cinesias abit of a feminist store, matriarchal subversion, it's a pretty common phenomenon. Ifound them or I'm looking into this like there are a warrior Queenseverywhere I mean Hipolito, the amazons yeah, the Amazonsin the Bailie and all through, I guess more relevant to prached and withsomeone I strain Shakespeare thing like all: through British law and especiallythe Authurian mythos, you have the British Queen Birdes, who led arebellion against the Romans in the first century of the common era and waslater apocryphally depicters having sides on a chariot wheels in the styleof the Irish Warrior, God cu, killaen or Colligan. I don't know how to saythat, but yeah this is ongoing representations of warrior Queens allthroughout European and British mythology. Of course, we we talkedabout with regard to sleeping beauty. There was Brunhilda is the warriorqueen there as well so yeah. There are a lot of more kings, more men and stuff,but there's also like this isn't a new introducer version that comes on laterworry queens are as old as literature and mythology itself. Yes, that shouldbe. I was thinkin o I I was just thinking of Jena up the whole time yeahand then yes, Spencer, Bell Baby Brideman, Radigan Yeah. My reading ofthe lineages in the ferry queen, which is an epic poem by Edman, Spencer andAlice, can correct me on this. Is that the the mode lineage, the QueenElizabeth Lineage, is descended from Verdes, but there's also the idea thatQueen Elizabeth and the tudors are sorted they're right to the throne bysaying we're descended from King Arthur, yes, because of Joseph of verimythright Pro King Arthur, like not a thing, no think not a thing, so it don't workthat so co back for it was what I was like. A the tutors are they're based onmythology, because it's all it's all crapers a similar, but also allmonarchies, are based on myths. The idea that the God is this the king isthe sovereign of God, like it's all, bullshit yeah. So I guess it's notparticular, but it is this idea of stories becoming part of the real worldwhich obviously lords and ladies and the witches cycle is all about. Youbring us around so after the war of the roses like an me, the seventh yet tookpower, and he just had no justification for being there. Just none like he wasthe seventh side of a seventh son of a seven son. We could do it that way ifwe wanted like no really actually no no be cool if he was, and the point is hewas about related to anyone who's been on the throne, as I am to to mentionAlice as God and Saviour, my God in say I am a mentionest but creed, so thetudors took the throne and they needed a way of justifying it. So they tookthis ancient mythology and tried to suggest that they were descendants fromKing Arthur and legitimize the king afther method. Something was real, eventhough it wasn't and the way of doing it was saying that well, Joseph ofArmeth a bought the cup, the holy grail back from where I was it over there.You know in the in the east, with the BOT of Christ, did it and it belongedto king after, and they descended from that family and therefore they're,actually the one true royal family, because they descended from Jesus.Somehow that was that was their line of the E, not the sender, from Jesus, butyou row linked to it. They had the cub and they were Ov, they bought them thecup, and so they were the ones who should have been in power and that'show they got around everything else that happpened in between that's thethat's, a linear, Juggie and that's why...

...they use King Arthur, which isridiculous, but yeah that interesting us. Okay, we queens a a myths thatdon't exist that are but also wary kings. King Arthur not real to bullshit. Yeah. Sad though ton the best deal, yeah sure sure we do it. Yeah,I've never been more our age than when I went to vessail and saw Mary is aMary ancide, a little dog garden and life, so dog at you got the servants todress up as dolls and Fain Yeah H. I m like I know they already like didrevolt, but I wanted to reave revolt us like bring it back and just shop itdown again it's a lot as the falcon of the be guy says we can have asuspiciously Republican Grin. I liked that line, not the Americansense. No, no, but so that is, and what's her name were Internet, not acool queen. You know who is a cool queen. It's my grat regrets the coolestQueen, but she's, really not hot and as loss observes taken as a trilogy,Wid Sisters, which is a broad and golds and ladies, can be seen as a drama ofthe evolution of Maracay from her sad attempts to behave in an alcohol mannerin the first novel to our first attept to find your own identity in the secondto a virtual renunciation of the image of the witch in the third which enablesher to assume the same power which the older witches have had throughout,which is interesting because yeah the laws are saying there that she is she's,not Renati, ating, renoncer, renouncing witchcraft, she's renouncing the imageof the witch or the rules of the grand weather, Waxen and many ogsrepresentation of witch crap rules and airlines of a witch. Now this is sortof out of mind by Magrat. Doesn't do witchcraft ever again, it's in thelater books that she's essentially given it up. She doubles in Persons andhealing magic, but she doesn't really practice witchcraft, but then Haynethat is grandy weatherwax. That's the whole point right. She does Persiansand healing, but it's definitely give points out in l, flan revisited,contrary to granny weatherwax right Magrat can only be strong when she doesnot think it's sort of the opposite here, so the only being the e when shestops trying she becomes. I identify with that, and I think it's also thatonce she gets into the warrior queen mode like she's, just running oninstinct she's, not planning anything she's, just job wicking it through thecastle, where their crossbars John Wick has come off like and in ordered anamount on these podcasts have to it's all for me, but it's become areference, but I go too much yeah, so she's sort of there sewing that she'sfalling more naturally into the role of the warrior Quin. I guess she does itto her version of what she should be rather than trying to comply with anyof these convention. She's herself, when she's not trying to be someoneelse, yeah what she's trying to be into specifically doesn't she think that shetakes on the spirit through the arm or something I, but the spirit doesn'texist, yeah so she's just like doing what she thinks she could do. It isgreat, although in this world you got the idea that belief in somethingactualizes, it makes it real so like. Maybe there is something that Magratbelieves in it so much that N C, actually, like her spirit, does come toher because mcgranahan that spirit, that's not in the text, but it isimplicit in the rules of DIS word. I was on that. I have a scholarship fromCambridge University yeah, for we don't live on the back of a turtle. So how dowe get that a yeah? We have to invent Narrativia in a twenty ten article.Shakespeare, disque Christen noon also observes that McGrady, aided by grannyand so far she breaks the Alf Queen's Glamor, arguing that all grandia manycan do is allow Magrat to see the machinations by which the Queenmanipulates humans and allows her to act on her own. So she's saying therethat Manny and granny break the g glamour, but then McGrath The one whodoes the act who fights the off Queen Yeah, okay, so she's, been an activeplayer, is also a connection back to which is a o which ends with McGrathher wand into the swamp. He she renounces the rest of it witchcraft bythrowing her hat into the river yeah. So here it's sort of like Magrat,giving up being a witch you sewon it away, but it was like it was. The rightthing to do at the end of which is abroad was further one the way. So hereby analogy, it's casting the witch's hat as like a tempting thing that shedoesn't need something there I get. I guess something else. I didn't workabout laws and, ladies more conceptually, rather than specificsentences, I don't like the Magrat is skeptical about superstition yeah, likeshe's the one who buys into that Shit Right. So when she's saying oh they're,just fairy stories but she's the one with the wicker books and the dream,catches and everything it just you're right, that's poor, characterizationyeah, I feel like they should have gone with someone else being skeptical of it.I don't know a right, although I guess that's granting way, Lak saying that,are you buy into all this new age stuff? But you don't actually have reverencefor the proper old stuff, but it also just annoyed me that, like anyone indis quote, is skeptical of for plor things, because it it's all real in discloud, yes, correct yeah, he does revisitthis in some of the other books.I can't remember which ones where it's...

...just like people being like all theirold stories, I'm like you live in the world with stories are real, likethere's the premise of your world. So I guess that is one weakness of the bookthat I will concede. McRae with doubles and things that wewere talking about last episode with Lilith and Granny and and so Magrat wasa mirror of lily as well, and that they were both trained to be gone. Mothershere again, Magrat is used as sort of the mirror for the antagonisn she's amirror of Dimanda. I like Daman yeah, but Domanda is like she has all theoccult jury and things and she dresses like a golf which, like yeah, I likeran stuff, but it's showing that that mindset makes her susceptible to theElf Queen, yeah and Magrat is again the contrast there. I was wondering also Ifeel like that is to be a short story spit off. Where you know granny doestake Dimando under her wing and uses her PA, clear skill and interest andenthusiasm and channels into something else for like why I just shrug them offbecause they're, dumb younger you know there is a short story from onethousand nine hundred and ninety eight called the sea and little fishes. I wasgoing to say it's so like what you're des Crowing with it's sort of like theopposite of what you're describing where granny weather wax tells them togo. Stick it there's yeah in the Tiffany Okin books, there's letters awick will let us I wage and she likes to be called WHO's sort of the Magratwhose no one's ever pulled her up sort of thing, which she's become this old,which who's all about the the image and the wicked stuff and the trinkets? Andall of that and she becomes the rival. Who Raises Her an apprentice and agramma who doesn't have a clue. And then this short story is about how theyask granny weatherwax not to participate in the witch trials becauseshe always wins and then she she ends up winning by not participating. Maybewe'll look at that when we get to the tiffiny aching books, but in the FIRcall of desquietude Ne Simpson State that MC Grattan, Temenis, moreintellectual and ritualistic kind of magic is more like wizardry, the kindwhich involves talk, circles and cones of power and candles and terror cardswhich promises spectacular of sways, which on earth is often called highmagic. So nothing need that, but this is prache confirming our interpretationof the the witch was of analogy and that MC Grat is not doing witch crassproperly, because she's leaning into the wizard stuff too much is theirjudgment. I guess they say that such a girl has had an education. She probablywears a big floppy hat and black lace and lots of a cult silver jewelry. Shepaints her finger nails black, she ad ups, a new flamboyant name but againmacgrath the one who does not change her name as we discussed him, which isabroad, he's the only character with a singular name. So yeah there's someinconsistency there, and this also seems to go against projects. Wholething about performance and the power of appearances, which is revisited in ahatful of sky and the shepherd's crown where tiffany aching is pitted againstthe Domanda, like apprentice, which Anagram a Hawkin but is also empoweredthrough the witch costume and paraphernalia that she gets from baffosJoke Stop Shop. That becomes a big thing in those foks as well. So again,there's these mixed messages that it seems yeah like he's, not complex,ifying he's just pitting them in opposition, but then both are right. Itdepends more on WHO's, doing it the characters he likes doing it, that'sokay for the characters. He doesn't like not on yea yea, but this idea ofcostumes and performances about is another big thing in in Portam. Ladies,so as Andre Rayman, who wrote the thing about the dwarf fashion that we talkedabout in the Ansen academicals episode as he observes people respect theprimacy of costume and disquiet, and he asked how can we see? Otherwise, whenit is made clear that I'm disquiet, fretting about one's performance is anabsolute and unmistakable constant. This is from a chapter from philosophyand Terry Project. Mis legal title patched in the masquerade, which makesyou think it's going to be about mask great, but it is not, but there's a lotmore of this performance stuff going on in Lords and, ladies, you have thebandit leader with the fake I patch telling them that you know people,respect uniforms and my grant who also read in a book somewhere the whichcrade has to dress sexy, which remide me of my favorite choke from were notmy favorite joke were one of my favorite jokes from cabin in the woodswhen they're doing the the bedding pool on how they're all going to die andthere's the white board with all the options and there's the two options:tes witches or sexy witches. So I like that. One Rigat is alsopreoccupied with costuming when it comes to being a queen, insisting thatshe must exercise Nobilis obligate by wearing a proper queen outfit. I alsolike that they put it together, like a Ko furniture like there's a few layersof funny there, I think, there's you know tersus lie funny, but also theidea that you have to cultivate that this. At that, you've got put ittogether with the oblong that goes into the duty dad and yeah yeah. It'srevealing the artifice that goes into it with in Magrat inquisitivenesscoming through. She wants to know the names of all the dress material she's,not just satisfied with having someone else, give her a dress. He wants toknow how to make it. She wants to know the material she wants to know. Theconstruction is the research which thing that we're identified with comingthrough his love, Magrat, yeah, there's also Shang or I thought, played a waylarger role in the witch novels, but only really appears in this one, butyeah he's cord switching between all these different rolls and he has to runand get the other UNI forms and things...

...it's funny. Yeah he's good, but asRaymond observes, the implicit assertion is that these characters canonly become what they are through their recognizable performances of what theyare. That's a bad quote. They can only become what they are by performing whatthey are. I get it but times in with the idea of Shakespeare in the theater,which will talk about more in the next part, but Roman also cautions that,while this is funny in an ironic way, it also gives preche a free hand tokeep on using the stereotypes of fantasy. But I guess there's like the dumbtrolls in the books and stuff, I geeche all yeah the Awks and things the he'saverts the OX. We we'll see this when we get to the wizard books, but some ofthe portrayals of lack the a stock actor has throughout the first fewbooks is the like exotic woman, I'm thinking specifically of Tracy andPyramids, where it's like she's, a concubine who turns out to be the Queen,but so she's the the subversion. I she's an intelligent concubine, whichalready that's troublesome but she's still like so subverting it in that way,the choke at least, but it still playing of how sexy she is. I did havean observation joke a line in this book that is said bygrunning weather works. But when I read it, I thought this could equally havebeen said by Steve Jobs, and I find that fun an she's talking about why,which is only were black and she says only because it's perspective andservice were while Tis in to a now liberal isfull shit. And, of course, this also ties in with the ALF, the album glamor,which is an aspect of the als we're going to talk about in this episode, so,as Norman Talbot observes in one thousand nine hundred and ninety sixarticle when hells go to what set sells apart from other magical creatures,such as angels or devils, which actually else might be Wel teaser forpart to there. But since I was apart from other magical creatures, is thereAlvin Glama, noting the word is cognate with grammar and reminding his readersof their poetic elegance? This is something talking himself also playswith in his essay on fairy stories, which again we'll talk about nextepisode. That's become that we'll talk about this in which is abroad. We'lltalk about this in part to indeed that already explains that Glamor is acorrupt form of grammar which was originally introduced into the literarylanguage by so Walter Scott. The LAD's first definition of glamour is that itis a magic and chairman or spell especially in a phrase used to classglamour over one. So there's a Titian is the words the power of words and allof that. Interestingly, the oldest example that the OAD gives of thesucamore comes from the SES and it's used to accuse witches rather thanelves of using clamor, which Scott describes as a special attribute of therace of Gipsies, which is a great the second definition the lad gives ofclime is as a magical or fictitious beauty or a delusive or alluring charm,which doesn't take hold until the mid eighteen. Hundreds, an it's modernusage, meaning physical alleen, Feminine Beauty, doesn't kick in foranother Hundred Years in the mid twentieth century. So, even though, yes,it's pretty removed from its original definition, the definition of Glamor wehave now and Glitz and Glamor, and all of that is a pretty recent developmentthere. where, as traditionally it's been this more nefarious thingassociated with, which is an Elf. So the web was first popularized by SirWalter Scott, a boy who remarks in his letters on demonology and witchcraft.Very pleasures were showy but totally unsubstantial their activity unceasing,but fruitless and unavailing, and the condemnation appears to have consistedin the necessity of maintaining the appearance of constant industry orenjoyment, though that oil was fruitless and their pleasures. Shadowyand up substantial and Scott also writes on his eighteen o five pol delayof the last minstrel about a spell, but having much of Gramarie could make alady seem a night. My note on this was it's very similar to the Baldomeroprove wore hats. Bat Advocates John Kates poem of that name. The lady has aglamour, or some kind, it's clear that something has drawn the night in thatshe's she's, put on some Sotor for sad and yeah he's about to die in ahillside because he's his life's blood sack the way by which probably whomight also be a vampire fright. I had O't know it somewhere, and maybe it'sin the second part that this is also crystabell M, yeah, crispel, yeah thesame again yeah yeah, whatever I teach one of these have to talk about theother one come to my club. Also here yeah we got a glamor that could make alady seem a night. This is this is a reverse Magra or just just a plane,matrit yeah. What kind of move is the reverse Magrat? Well, I have a questionabout the bucket and stick dance to stick and bucket don think out. Whatkind of move is that? I think it's exactly what you think. I think that's yeah, very intentional.You said Walter Scott might be our boy is water, scholar, boy. I thought youwere not a Scott Fan. I had to read all oldershot novels when I first set of myPhD to see if he had any dark heroes and the answer is no yes, so it's notyour boy. Well, I mean I've been to his house and I'm like nose draft R. So I'ma pretty big fan of him is just not my boy. In terms of my riding all right, Ithought you resented Scott, but he is a frustrating figure, but also veryinteresting, very interesting, yeah, okay invented the word clime, yeah andor didn't invent the word climber...

Popular Righty in literature, but asgone for climate points out in two thousand and thirteen article we'remaking Shakespeare and discworld- and I realize saying all these is veryannoying and I wouldn't do it if I was writing things, but this is an audiomedium, so I have to give full creditis for every time we get it in her twothousand and thirteen article for making Shakespeare discord. She saysShakespeare who was around about two hundred years before Scott does not usethe town glamor in his work, although his fairies are glamorous in theirability to cause models to see reality through a haze of enchantment. Do Ihave a point here? I think the point is the idea is around. They just don'thave a word for it. Yeah Yeah, thanks for thanks for clarifying that YeahLeith. Setting that up! No, no, I was just like I know, there's something upyeah. Is that enough to say that the idea is implicit even if it's not o acreatures and things that could cast songs lit a swell that make you thinkthat they weren't what they were a couple o year to a hundred years ormore than about a hundred and fifty hundred twenty five years before theODAs definitions, where they're giving the attributing glimate witches andthings so yeah. This idea has been around in Foco, at least on theterminology didn't come until later. Ramon also describes the ALT quenesface is a kind of mirror thoughts that you look into it and see yourselfreflect. I don't know you see what you want to see. Yer is important inSpencer as well in terms of fulfilling destiny, and fate will come to that. Wewill not sure about that when I got the idea that it's like distorting reality,but critics and personal ness, but critics I'm coming to learn as well.Also overuse, mirror analogies and yeah granny weatherwax also compares the AlfStale beauty and grace to cats, sing that if cats look like frogs, werealize what nasty cruel little bastards they are. So I have to ask,would I so, would you still like goose if she was a frog yeah, a ether I'll slime up there yeah I dolike their warm and ferry that does help. It really does it's annoying whenthey're rubbing their face of POKY and their eye. Would they cause in themorning, but it is like, could precious little cunts? I claim to be an you know: equalopportunity, anti species x campaigner, but I do really like the fuzzy ones.Like mammals, they're, good I or a picture of a lady holding an one bat inthe news today, Oh made, my heart swell, also makes me wonder water frogs getsuch a bad rap. That's the Fort Prince. The last thing you would ever want tomarry is a frog like who's doing pay off for frogs. There's some stuff inthis from an evolutionary perspective, because you know children, a lot ofthem will be like o bugs snakes things that you know will hurt us and Elitists,but we've got to teach them not to run out into traffic. I think it could besimilar with frogs it's built into us, that we know that they might hurt us ifwe lick them or try to eat them, so we're like yeah at least that's how Ijust to for my hatred of snakes, all that and Sodom yeah, but the two gohand in hand. It's because we don't, then that it came after so anotherthing I thought we could talk about in Lords and, ladies, is borrowingwhich I think is something you've had some thoughts about over the previousbooks. Just about yeah the ethics of entering another character, anotheranimal's mind without consent and taking over essentially its will andthen leaving it confused and befuddled. Something doesn't sit right there withme, but it's imperialism, but with brains. Well Yeah. This has somehistorical precedent so in the focal of discord, project and Simpson, referencereport from an one thousand nine hundred and o two Journal of Fekli,that tells of girls who stayed with an old woman and her daughter and uponwaking in the night, found the mother's body deathly cold. The girl telling thewoman, the woman's daughter that she thought she was dead to which thedaughter responded. Her baton, dead, her be out and about now. So that'smaybe where granny weather waxes sign comes from. I ate and did seems likeit's a direct reference to this historical quotation. But althoughapproachin Simpson don't provide a citation for this article, I was ableto track it down and it's from an article called Impetu of Norfolk hidaspirants Norfolk, hite sprites by Daniel Allan, rabbit Rabuzin's. Itdoesn't add anything more about the borrowing, but the following paragraphreads: passing from witches to fairies. The belief is weaker. They have notbeen seen for many years, though they used to dance in the walk and were likelittle soldiers. So I wonder if this is a coincidenceright or if this is like the fact that the sign comes in and the idea aboutthe fairy belief getting weaker, like it's a big coincidence that those ideasare next to each other in an article, the Prachetas site. Now they write thislater on, the FOTO DIS world comes out in two thousand and eight. So that'slike almost two decades after Lords and ladies and I thought well, maybePracchia got this cord off Simpson who's, courted it elsewhere as well,and some of her other books she's a folk oris, but he says he met her whiledoing research for carpet Jugan, which came out six years after lots and,ladies so probably not. I will definitely not in fact the articlewhere he talks about meeting Simpson, imaginary worlds, real stories from twothousand that's published in the Journal of fuco itself. So maybe it wasthe other way round. Maybe is project...

...writing the section of the Poker Disword rather than Simpson, like I normally just assure that's the secondperson who's written the whole thing, and then ter project comes along andputs his name on it, but maybe he was more involved in these sorts of things,and maybe he found this while doing research about the waning of elves andfound this thing about the borrowing and then told Simpson. This is allspeculation and conjecture, but there's a lot there's a lot of coincidencesgoing on there that S, that's a conspiracy theory. I can get behindyeah and either way. It suggests that this is where he got gany sin and maybeeven the whole idea of borrowing from, although it's you know through whichcar more generally as well in the foor of Discoperto Simpson, also referencein one thousand nine hundred and thirty seven book by The Hampshire Federationof Women's institutes. That's a Federation of institute throughoutthey're, very confusing called. It happened in Hamshire, which tells of awoman called Granny from breamore that could turn herself into a hair. Oh yeah,that sounds yeah well. This will come back in we'll talk about that. But hereis a thing in. I shall wear midnight the best difine aching book, but yeahthere's a lot of the borrowing players are really get a more significant rolein this book than maybe any of the others, or maybe not care for Jugumactually, but her. I really like that. She borrows the bees yeah and thenshe's going around bragging going. You've got to be good to deal with beesbecause he ends up with your minds, flying in all different directions, which is amusing, except that hivemines are a complete met, and this has been nown since a la one thousand, ninehundred and twenty seven, when the Germans or elegist carve on fishdescribed the waggle dance through which Habes communicat communicate sortof like a dance semeroe that they're doing obviously dancing ties into thethemes of Lords and ladies as well, but this was a revolutionary discovery forwhich he was eventually awarded the Nobel Prize, so it's sort of like wellpublicized common knowledge. I guess that that hide mines on a thing, but itis definitely something that's persisted through fancy popular culture,fantasy, Lego, science fiction lecturer, especially like stuff, like all themilitary science fiction, that ends with them fighting a high mind ofinsect aliens, which is everyone just ripping off, starship troopers, butyeah. This is a trip that is perpetuated in fiction despite beingthoroughly disproven, so so a bit of a similar r were going on there. Ofcourse, these are discord. Bees not ran well, but you so you know we're playingin the fantasy world, but I thought maybe he could have done more with thedancing given that it ties into the morrow dancing and the dancing to someof the fairies and all of that, the dances that of the stones, if dancingsa theme of this book, Why didn't he take the bee dancing and run with it?Maybe didn't know about it, yeah to come on he's smarter than that. I friend es everything. Also in histwenty ten book, honey be democracy. Thomas Sealey also dispels the myththat honey B colonies are governed by a benevolent dictator Queen, which hesays traces back to Aristotle. Who was wrong about everything by the way yeah.But I checked an aristotle only talks about king bees. Okay, I don't thinkaristol would be having with matriarch ies anyway, but even then he says that they areonly essentially in is in so far as reproduction. So I don't know wherethat comes from be man, but silly says a honey, big colonies. Quean is not theroyal decider; rather she is the Royal Ivoire and the idea of a b dictates Ipis also popularized by Shakespeare, who writes in Henry the fifth doth. Heavendivide the state of man in divers functions to which is fixed obediencefor so work. The honey bees creatures that, by a rule in nature, teach theact of order to a peopled kingdom. I think this is deliberate. I think thisis an extra thing that projects taken the B being from Shakespeare as well.Celia also uses this as an epigraph in his book, but he uses bees to argue youfor democratic communism. Rather than a Matracas hip saying that there is noall knowing central planer supervising the thousands and thousands of work, abees in a colony, the work of a hive is instead governed collectively by theworkers themselves, each one an alert individual, making tours of inspection.Looking for things to do and acting on our own to serve the community andachieve an enviable harmony of labor without supervision, I think overdemocratic communism yeah, I don't know I he being a bit reading into the beestoo much yeah, maybe they're not a high of mind, but also yeah, maybe notsocialist utopia about yeah they're, not that organized never wore sillyalso confirms that the only Known Dominion exercised by the Queen is thesuppression of rearing additional Queens. She accomplishes this with aglandular secretion called Queen Substance. The workers contacting herpick up on their antenna and distribute to all other corners on the hive. Inthis way, these workers spread the word that their mother queen is live andwell. Hence there is no need to rear a new queen, so this is an equivalent ofa human woman, just nearing blandula stuff over things to they don't makemore of me. Well, it's the equivalent of Megara having to flush out the OAFcoin in the Bo. Okay, all right, all right, so you might have missed withthe HIVE mind, but this idea of the the war and Queens the warring Queens thingyeah, the Glengarians we could do without that. We precendent actuallyinclude clangorous somethinggo back to...

...two things I liked over one thing I didnot: The glandulous secretion seemed a bit gratuitous yeah, but also the elvesof wasps, not bees right, which was far known to invade the hive. So, okay isthis: If we're going down to be analogy road, if the bees are a socialistutopia, where everyone's looking after each other and the community is workingfor themselves right, that's luck! Right! That's what granning weather waxwants and then you've got an invasion of Wass who are who are dictatorsbecause they talk about that. They use the feudal system as the example. Yetright so do we have here it's not only what per spes elshe humans, it'sdictatorship versus community right, yeah, yeah, yeah? Okay, how about thatnow? The bees stuff very very broadly ties into one of the other themes ofthe book, which is sort of animal ethics and the Vegetarian stuff thatI've been threatening to off about for a few episodes now like here, it ismade very explicit and it's more broadly on the animal. I think side ofthings as Gibbert observes praches elves are very cruel, since they lovehunting animals and torture and kill small animals like fish bees andrabbits. Just for sport. You know, like human stir, yeah very cruel.Nevertheless, as rainman asserts. The background hum of Proche is a naturethat is ravenous and cruel. His constant technique is to present uswith a sentimental aspect of the natural world, humble bees, kind, old,mother, nature, a soppy old cat and dearing mother Otto with her cubsbefore reminding us that the reseen spectacles, through which we observethe non nature, distort our vision, spectacularly the bees dismember oneanother in lords of ladies the service that the kind of Mother Nature Reservesfor small lost baby birds is their slaughter and the soppy old cat wouldattempt to fight or wrote anything in which is abroad. The mother order andher cubs are matricides and he emphasizes in unseen academicals. Idon't remember the orders from unseen academicals. These are our books, we'vecovered, so that what we are left with is a nature that is blood red andprimordial where mother and children dying upon mother and children. TheProto is also intensely anthropocentric. I mean Lords and ladies, you havegranny weather back saying. That is the people who tell the Land I nature whatit is which is sort of going against this natural order thing right. Thewhole idea that lake can't be anything unless there's people is very. It's thepower of word stuff, but it's a bit self a Grand Isan in terms of peopleand things so as much as he's say, natures read in Truth and claw, butalso the animals sort of have their own thing. That they're doing he's verymuch coming down on the side of people are in control of nature as violent asit might be. I think there's a good quote about Red Kelly that he did a lotfor Rose Berebee, that he did a lot for red species for one thing he kept themrare and it's just as bad as the else. You know yeah exactly as give it alsopoints out. Granny weatherwax is rather friendly to non human animals, lettingthe RUB on which is accidentally nested in their water kettle, stay there andhas a special relationship with the bees in a garden, but it's Magrat, whois far more extreme in her animal sympathies, and this is where I'm goingto do at my vegetarian thing to give us a quick red cap of the seeds, I've beenplanting throughout the previous episodes. It's very Sevena love me inequal rights. We had grating complaining that city people don't eatnatural food which isn't an explicitly vegetarian animal thing, but as someonewho's done a whole bunch of research into vegetarian stuff, this is a tiedin thought mostly to meet eating that protest. Food Vigan substitute food is,you should be eating natural food, which often includes hunting around thethis idea of agrandising agrarian and had together in societies in weirdsisters. We had the animal ghosts in the kitchen and mgrate whinny about avegetarianism so again representing her and her vegetarianism as out of toucheven while sort of revealing the violence and the grossness of meateating and in which is abroad. We had all the meat in genuine and Magaradescribed pigs as what pork is before its pork, suggesting a recent IC canisview of the world. He an lords and ladies, we have Ms Scowbanks whospecializes in artery, clogging dishes so full of sutras fats that they oozeddown in great wobbly globules and who can't get the hang of vegetarianism.Here we we are getting the pushback of project representing meat eating asunhealthy. I guess right. It's artery clogging that sort of thing whichproche and unhealthy cooks is another trope, employes, often or unhealthy,and and rote turn cooks, but yeah. The cooking lords of ladies consitsvegetables, only as things to soak up spare gravy and doesn't think thingsare herbs unless you can stuff them up a chickens bomb, so very, very neat,centric Canape of the world there and there's all common as in the singing,which is ironically, the one part of the book like that. I don't like wheremigrates demanding vegetable meals from the cook and she says it can't be done.The alts turned the whole kitchen upside down and it's going to take medays to get it straight anyway. Everyone knows where visual is bad foryou and I'm not going to be ordered around in my own kitchen by some chitof a girl and empowered by yet's winged Helmet Magaret demands that the cook goahead and make her kisha gas, and this...

...is right at the end of the book. Sothis is the culmination of Magrat journey. Not only is she assertingherself, as over the cook being like, will make me a vegetarian meal, not ameat mail. This is her a sort of her authority go know. I am the Queen and Iam in charge of you because all throughout the book she's been that the cook's been calling the shotsand Magata well ire in the castle. Yes, the the cycle of Magrat empowermentconcludes with Harris Ocian of Vegetarianism, with even gradyweatherwax, conceding that this vegetarian option stuff made for apretty good dinner. So this is yeah MC rat. Getting one over her victory is avegetarian victory. We started reading it, as that I think it's. Conversely,the cooks can ist enthusiasm is potrayed is unhealthy. She has threewhiskery Chins, which wobble so menacingly. It was like vitamins thatMagrat made an excuse to back out of the kitchen which yeah again ties intoproces Pantophobia, which is something that keeps coming back throughout allhis books. So there's that also so that's Magrat my grade is thevegetarian here ware, queen her enemy, her mirror double is the queen of theelves who truth humans, like kanos humans, treat other animals, so alreadytalked about how rid cully and other people. You know. People also treatanimals other animals as sport and heard them for fun, but you also havethis step of hunting running throughout Lords and, Ladies Right, you have theUnicorn who shows up and kills the Hunter William spoke, who is hunting anendangered deer out of season? That's greny whether aks point out the Unicornkill scrope rather than murders him, since only a superior racist can murder.That's one of the things that sets us apart from the animals. One only of itsoriginal search in this scrope was Modo. Reveals, however, is that this logicalso works in the opposite direction, for her murder is not by F, not definedby who is doing the murdering, but by who has been murdered, so humans can bemurdered while supposedly lower animals can only be killed. This is what Deritacalls and non criminal pudding to death. If you want to get weird andcontinentally technical about it or in the words of Donna Harow who I don'tlike very much, this is what makes some animal killable and others considerednon killable, which is how the els treat humans right. This is war of theworlds which is the Martians, come to earth and treat people the way peopletreat other animals. Is The elves come to Lugra and treat the humans inLangara the way the humans in Lika treat the other animals to the elves.They wouldn't consider killing humans murder since to them they're killable,and this idea is explored it even further in the watch book feed of Clay just allabout vegetarianism and Golems, looking forward to that one when we get to itin three and a half years, but lords and ladies in version ofspecies hierarchies is represented by the opening scene. That's I've hearnthe hunted who isn't version of the folk laffie he and the hunter whohaunts English, hillsides, harassing cattle and who apparently first appearsin Shakespeare's play the Mary words the merry wives of Windsor. Have youread this one m? No! No, it's doesn't have a good reputation, but it keepscoming up with regards to fairies and things. I might have to read it beforenext episode, but Alice. Would you like to read the description of Horn, thehunter from the merry wives of Windsor? Please there is an old tale: girls, theHen e sometime. I keep it here in winsor's, doth, all the winter time atstill midnight walk round about an oak with great ragged horns, and then hebluffs the tree and takes the cattle and makes milch kine yield blug andshakes a chain in the most hideous and dreadful manner. You have heard of sucha spirit and while you know the superstitious idol headed eld receivedand did deliver to our age, the tale of her and the hunter for a truth. So, yes,this is the the description of the hunting spirit of Brom, Senga kind ofreside and yeah. This is getting inverted in her. The hunted who's beenchased at the start of Lords and ladies, but this is all to say, my reading ofthe vegetarian assertion of McGrath is set up at the start of the book right.I'm always telling my students like when you read a book, Pay Very closeattention to the stand of the book, which I tell you what it's going to bea bad then at the end, so tell you what it's done so here. If we're looking atthat for Lords and ladies and saying this is a book about animals beinghunted and humans, big true by animals in the end of the book, as a vegetariantelling him be Ada to go and stick it. This is very deliberate on Pratchett'sPard, but also hante hunter has great ragged horns like the Alf keep, whowill talk about more in a bit and the return intervention of the Alf King atthe end of wars and, ladies, can be seen as a restoration of an allegedlynatural carest order. Things are out of whack, as the hunters are being hunded.Humans are being hunted, the god of hunting, shows up and sets everythingback to normal where humans become the hunters again. So that's you know andIndo of Magrat Vegetarian thing, because the natural autos is the humanhunting. You also get another inversion of Vafes, treating people like cattleand Carpojo and a bunch of other vegetarian stuff in the other series,but otherwise this vegetarian theme is completely dropped in the witches andTivan aching novels, where which mgrate ally disappears from until the finalbook and the final book in the whole discord series, the shepherds crown,which is about a vegetarian boy, traveling to Longerr it to learn to bea witch where he befriends the queen of...

...the elves and takes over grandy. Whythe waxes caught it sholy Shit, yeah right! So that's not just these threebooks. It's the entire witches series is a sort of vegetarian, not not a true teas,but yeah there's the culmination of it is the replacement of granningweatherwax by a male vegetarian, which cool, which also mirrors the femalewizard in a witch book yeah. So that's cool, so there hasn't been anythingwritten about vegetarianism in laws and, ladies and I'm hoping to do it myselfyeah, you are but wely. There have been a bunch of articles written about theLukola Marks in Lords and ladies and all the other witches novels, whichalso get a whole section in the folklore of dis quad as well, and oneof these articles imaginary places real monuments from a two thousand twocollection on the archaeology and science fiction. The Sussex County,archaeologist. Martin Brown points out that the lock along man is acombination of two English hill figures, the stern giant that which is the onewith the penis you've seen that and the Williamson Long Man, which is the manholding the two six or maybe opening a door. You gamins it's on a nice dreamwhich will do a bonus episode about, and you can hear it if you give usmoney on patron, yet a note give it to. But apparently there are two smallbarrows and one long one above the word to long man. Although I can't find anygood pictures of this, I'm not sure how felice they are, but there is thiscombination of a of a long barrow and two smaller ones. Nevertheless, Brownsays that when he asked Ratchet, if he knew about these barrows, he said heknew of the hill figures, but that the rest was his own invention. So I alsofound a really interesting article from the Sunday Times in one thousand. Ninehundred and ninety seven cold carry trips in Pratchett's Pagan Circle,which tells of how Crochet helped the group of pagans purchase and preserve aquote prehistoric son circle in Oxfordshire, associated with juridicrituals and witchcraft according to local folk or this circle. The rollright stones in shipping not represent a band of warriors and their king, whowere petrified by a witch. Although their preservation efforts weresupported by the Archbishop of Canterbury, George Carey, they wereopposed by the local Reverend Stephen Weston, who warned that they had ahistory of witchcraft in this area, saying that he had seen the forces ofevil at work and they could consume people and destroy lives, which thisreminds me actually, when I was in like first or second year in my Undergrad Idid a journalism. You know that I did journalism minor and one of the thingsI think our first assignment was. We had to go to a local council meetingand just find something to report about right so see. What's disgusting then goand write a story and nothing interesting was disgusted at the localcouncil mating as you might expect. But what I was surprised by and what I endup writing about- is that the local council meetings open with a prayeryeah right which I was like Huh- was not expecting that also like separationof Cherson Sate Sake, secularism and all that I was like. What's what's allthis about, so I went into a cup brought in by by something, and I endedup interviewing two of the counselors, the oldest counselor, on the on thepanel and the youngest council on the panel and the old guy was, I went intohis house and I interviewed him and he I think he actually may work as like achaplain or something out at a church, but he was really cool and he spoke tome about it. We had a really interesting discussion where he waslike yeah. I didn't see this in position and it was actually brought toor and people voted it in. It's just been part of it and all this and he hada really interesting discussion with me. The other guy called me on the phoneand went off about how if we don't have Heron Council meetings or he's likewhat do you want us to worship Satan to it? Do you want you? Do we just dowitchcraft in the thing? Is that what you want and started Rantin aboutwitches and Satan and everything while I'm just sitting there writing note now?I can't find this is from years ago, so I don't have a copy of this interviewor court or anything, but it was just. I asseta got this guy to just like alocal council member to rant about imposing threat of Segnis andwitchcraft to the candy near shall cancel they're out there. Aren't theyyeah and they're, making laws and they're making laws do have to what I'mour prime minister is a pentecostal Christian. Yes, yes, but as thearticles authors point out, the stones previous owner had looked after themfor twenty seven years without undue harm from any of the forces of evil. Soit seemed like a safe bet. Also her can we could get a rumor going that, likethere's witches in my local area like how do we do that? I want that tohappen. We run around in the node. Both Josane had the conversation aboutwhether or not you are the naked neighbor or you know one, and we, bothof so maybe we can make that happen. I get a culture and go to the PA pressurefor his part said he had no objection to the rites, IC use of the stonessaying there were far more than museum pieces to be seen only by tourists,although he'd personally draw the line at human sacrifice, that's good to knowwhere you do a in there are efforts eventually led to the formation of theroll right trust which took ownership of the stones in two thousand and oneafter which it charged pagan groups, a small feet to conduct vituals there,including an annual performance of midsummer night stream, accompanied bya mors dance. Now, there's the surprise...

...right, which is something we talk moreabout when we get to Retama. Actually, I jus a whole Morrow anser thing. So,yes, the Roy white stones are meant to be a king and his army, who atoned into stone by a witch and the last records of Oxfordshire fairies, claimthat they were seeing a going down a hole under the king stone at therollright stones. So that's where the fairies are meant to behind it andProche owns them. When I was little, I was obsessed with Faris, not likelittle girls are, I was like, but that creatures in there living somewhere andwe have to find them and if I look under the right, rock I'll be able tocommunicate with them, and I wanted to go to the land, but the fairies where-and I wanted them to take me through and my mom interpreted. This is that Ineeded like a fairy birthday party and I came out the morning. It was like apink fairy wing of I, and I don't know I think at the time I like it, but Ilook bike on it. I was like okay well, she tried, but I was obsessed with finding theferry Quino yeah, I so as young yeah. So next episode we're going to spend alot of time discussing the fairy Queen, who is the main focus in lords andladies, but I do want to talk briefly about the fairy king, who is on thecover after all of Lords and ladies okay. So I would like to admit that upuntil earlier on this podcast, I didn't know. Who is the doing? Well, I went tofor helpin like is this Lucifer? As he said? I don't know, I figure it out thepodcast, so I did think it a don't like. Maybe I like it's a King version, so Ifeel about it now. Yeah yeah he's the he's. The King of the fairies and theassociation with Satan is not unwarranted because again he's the Horn,God. It is at the point where I just see Satan everywhere. So sometimes Ithe same thing as to myself. I'm like no, no, no, that's there. That's thereat least in the maybe not in Proche so much, but definitely the focal Englishfocal that he's pulling from. But the king of the earles lives undergroundinside the mound which, along with British folk lore about spirits livingunderground and caves, is parade of reference to Danish traditions whereelves were synonymous with trolls who, in those visions are small creatureswho live inside hills rather than the mountain trolls of Phoenician Norwegianfurlow. So as Proche and Simca note in the fork, lor of disk world manyEuropean traditions tell of an ancient king who lies deep inside a mountainwho will awaken the hour of his country's greatest need this remind youof anyone Alice Arthur yeah, it's a okay, yes, so he's author whoapparently has of an heritage. So yes, the Elf king in laws and, ladies, isArthur or you know, is the yeah. What no I'm not saying he is Arthur, butlike that is he's fulfilling that function of Arthur, coming and savingthe kingdom in its time of need. But then, in the author tradition, authoris empowered by his Alvin Associations, a as for his appearance in the FIR clorof discworld pretence, Hissen described the king as a half human half beastSharman, who has an identical twin brother and the dancing goat like bornsalter, a rock art figure painted on the walls of the trefors, the threebrothers cave in southern France, and I have a picture there. But you can't seeit. It's a little goat man second, and they also acknowledge that the king hasa heritage in Horn figure such as the Greek Pan, the Kotic ant lid, Godserenus, and the Medieval idea that the devil has bulls horns, an it yeah yeah,although they claim that it is less than a hundred years since this images,since this image began to coalesce in the imaginations of English, witchesand Pagans See, I think this is a relatively new association through,like the twentieth century, Pagan Ritual, which is God you're, justpulling from a lot of traditions and sticking them together again. This hasalways been rich craft. I never spoke to any witches, but I'm pretty surethis is it d? Do you have anything about the history of the portrayal ofthat Satan as a Horn, God Hon Hom God, specifically? No, because effort ismore unlike Milton Sing, yeah up until noon representation of saying the devilwas exclusively represented as an awful maltsters figure and in all forms about,and that came from. Obviously, Christianity and Catholicism andEtcetera and Manila really capitalized on it, but off the mountain, where heactively humanizes Satan's character. You get all of these new agerepresentations of Satin as heroic, so that, but don't know about the Horn Godgive. It also argues that the king represents summer, in contrast to theQueen's winter, which is consistent with a lot of English focal andexplains why he needs to come along and get rid of her. However, this idea isbetter developed in the Tivy aching novels and isn't really, or at leastclearly developed at all. In words of ladies, I don't think so I'll leavethat for further discussion, for when we get to those books, it's also forZephania hates. You know this story. Yeah Yeah, I played pates a lot. That'spre shared me how to play he, because it's through the the abduction of peseta that we get thedivision of the seasons so and again, she's down in the underwork with Hades,and when she comes up, we have some Monso yeah. This is explicitly playedout in Winter Smith in the tiffany aching book, because it's also it'ssort of related to midsomer Trean, because Titania and Oberon pseven Hades,there's like this is a character trip. I also noted that the king has a voicelike chocolate, which is meant to be...

...like sort of- I guess it's masculineand alluring here and that's the same. signifier that's used to distinguishpepe as male an unseen academicals that he has a Chocolatey like voice. I thinkyou commented that the chocolate ness was sort of a female thing on thatepisode, but here, it's being, I guess it's associated with like a deepcentral masculine voice, yeah sensual, all right. That means it's time toclose things out with Masaru stuff that doesn't fit yeah. No, that's why I'm thinking it nowtrying to give us some worses. So I mentioned that the king of the ells ison the cover, like the scene that he's painted there. That's on the massproduce paper back is many og and casinae visiting the King of the elves,which all right. One thing I don't like about this book. I don't like theoutwork yeah, it's not a very good scene, and it's it's not great. It'ssort of weird it took my ages to work out that that was meant to be the kingof the elves and he's like nothing in the story. Yeah ease, I mean somethingI like about this quad over all is that there are distinct covers for thesebooks, not so much now that we're getting American versions and othereditions and things, but we have these Jush Carben Pal kidby covers for all ofthese books, and I was surprised to learn that there are two covers forLords and, ladies with the Arostus Kerby, creating a whole new cover forthe paperback edition after a bad time with requested revisions of thehardback version which disquiet on the disciplines, editor and Habit Eltonsays in her analysis of discworld. Visual semantics is understandable,since the hard cover illustration includes figures not transparentlyrelated to characters in the book, but I think that's crazy. The the theoriginal cover all those characters are in the book. These are the rudemechanicals yeah. This is the queen of the ferries, interesting eetion, we'lltalk about that when we get to the light fantastic. This is the King ofthe Elf. This is nanny organ casino. This is McGraw th, the Unicorn, andthese are there's the librarian, and these are the other ferries. So what ofthat isn't in the book? I think I've now changed it. So my backgrounds on mycomputer are cycle through the DISCOPERTA, because I'm at that stageof my obsession, I think this could be my favorite one. I think this is reallycool and definitely gives you more of an impression of what the books have,especially given that at features McGrath and the fairy Queen, who arethe main characters of this book where, as the other one's about nanny og andthe fairy king, who the most minor characters in the poor, so I don't knowwhat that choice was about. Maybe they just told him to get rid of the tittiesand he was like fine at the king just give her a shut God, let a be anywaywhatever well. This is a thing I mean to spoil this with Josh Kirby, theartist I like steddies, he likes titties Sur, it's honest. What someone's got Ta doyeah. Well, he so preched has said: There's a quort somewhere that I wasgoing to say for the Light Fantasca that no matter what you say were.However, you describe a character if you give it to him. They'll come backas a big titty lady, and this is the cover of sorcery the cover of a lot offantastic. Maybe it's eny type of titty. You knows how to drop right. Well, thecover of the light. Fantastic has the warrior woman with the thing, but inthe book it is described. She is the subversion of the fantasy warrior, lady,that she doesn't wear stupid armor that exposes her midriff because it was big,dangerous and she is fully clad from head to toe in black and brown leatherand then on the cover she's, the big titty warrior lady in the arm or be anyokay and then on the first. The first way: the color of magic. There's no bigto you, lady, except there is because we're down the bottom on the back cover.There's like a tiny little lady riding on the back of a frog who is topless oris just a thing I can yeah, they never go out of style to it, nor tidy'stimeless he's welcome to the stage timelesstitties. We also have a reference to an order ofWizards in Lords and, ladies which I guess settles the You know what is thecollective now for wizards for as a well, except that we were going onabout who's, that guy, that the rivers of London, Dude Beneant, yeah, that wewere talking about how he has an argument of wizards and there's thismeme about the argument of Wizards, and I don't know where it's come from oreven wintersmith project says that the collective NAM for witches is in Acumenof witches. That sounds sexist, but I'll go with it well. Well, I thinkit's more about about witches so, but I do know like does that, come fromPreche and I'm really sure, but then it's pretty time to talk about wizards,rather than which is because also in the Celtic myths that we're talkingabout where some of the fairies come from Ta an hog is the name for theother world. I'm wondering if that's a connection to nanny og could be. Idon't know what that means, but I was just like they're the same letters inthe same order right I so wanted to know what kind of sex move you thinkshowing the Unicorn is well. Hus are clearly involved, and maybe you getyour favorite shoe and s so you are...

...taking this very literally. Is when showing me a metaphor for theaction you're doing. Maybe you put it on the penis to warm it up when it'scold, it's just use UNICO and then it can befor magic later. I ses so to me yeah. Clearly the Unicornis the Panis Yeah, but I want rather than putting a shoe on it like shoeingwould be the actor. What do you do when they sure you you nail something I he would just beany kind of sex over come on Thinkin, you tap the bottom. I don't know. Maybe your idea is better than I I it's just a fancy way. I've saying cutthe balls, that's good as in jobs, a people actually listening to this, butthen, when I got to making money and projected half the book talking about adog running around with a vibrator in his mouth, I'm like no, no get cool.It's Fay. We also have nanny og, telling casinae that Magrat says abroom. Stick is one of them sexual metaphor things. I did. I noted thatyes, but then did you notice the footnote that says that this is afallacy. Good mine doesn't come up with a FOOTBA. I knew I was missing out onsomething yeah. You got the foot. There's a little notethat says it's a fallacy, spout PHA EH! Well, that's why I'm here for the big jags right. Ithink that's my favorite joke in the book. If we're doing that, the otherone was I just like, I realize this is a thing preche does, but when projectdescribes people a spanking around is like the word. swanking is a a Naddiowite Erver here that he's like over there that he was just winking around.So those are my favorite jokes. Did you have any that jumped out at you? Well,obviously, because of you know, the port I play the martial arts andmarital its mess up was was good, was a good time, but you know a cheap joke,but I like the cheap jokes, the other one I quite liked. Well, I reallytalked about assembling the dress, like Ok of furniture when, when migret tells Annie when thewedding's going to be, she says it's, you know going to be mid. Tellin it abad choice. Shot has started a year like you need me turn to party, and I, likethat's a really good time. You got a Shit Unicorn before you are a go on. Ithink. That's the implication, and- and I also just enjoyed thatwizards are not by a large breakfast people is yea, have a good hobbit jokecool, but you have one final note about the neo liberalism thread in a twothousand and six chapter on the charity of witches in the Tiffany, a con novels,Rebecca ancy Der Raserie. We talked about her work in which is a broadepisodes. She observes that in Lords and ladies project considers theimplications of Judy, if you want to really upset a witch, do her a favorfor which he has no means of repaying. The unfulfilled obligation will nag ather like a hang now. Obligations and bargains are for the witches, thestimulus of community service and, as I leaned Donaldson notes, rather thanbeing monsters process, which is are therefore helpful figures in thisseries, but implosion. That is the idea that kindness is transactional. It'slike the witches, aren't just doing it for someone else. If they feel likethey owe someone. If someone does something for them, they implicitlyfeel like they are someone. So, that's implying that, yes, witchcraft is totruth, kindness as a transactional practice, Yatis yeah and they say. Oh.I think this is from the freckle of DIS word. I says that the witches epicstruggles on behalf of Lanka are recounted in Lawton. Ladies and Carpajo.Never in the field of inter species conflict was so much owed by so many toso few, but do the people of Lone or appreciate this? Do they hell? Theydon't even notice, which is perhaps how it should be. So this is Pratchett andSimpson, but Pratchett may be pointing out that the granny weatherwaxtransactional view of kindness is may be flowed. That is a character floorrather than an ideal yeah. Perhaps perhaps all right in terms ofdistinguishing these two parts is is part one we're going to do part twoabout the elves is as we're working out what the show is, and I work out howmuch research I want to do on everything I realize we got twoapproaches year, looking in and looking out, which I think you can to apply toacademia more broadly and then this episode we are looking in at projectfrom the outside, so we're taking all these theories and all these academicstuff, when we are applying it to the project text, to see what we can comeon with there. The other approach, which I actually find kind of moreinteresting, is looking from within procas work outside at other literature.That's what we go on, I do on episode to when we go through L. The else stuffis we're not going to actually talk about Lords and ladies or precut workthat much itself, but we're using the ideas in proche. The idea that Al usedto be one thing that Foka wanes and changes and how stories change people'sperceptions and taking that as a lens...

...as all academic proposals, would callit to examine traditional views of fairies. So what we're not talkingabout Pachet we're using predate ideas and applying them to outside literates?That's what we're going to do in part to see ye that will be next episode.I'll see you that give us money. Can I take a moment to put my podcast,you er do it. I do mention it in the actuator episode. I do see. Yeah you'venever listened to the podcast. I've told you this. It makes me veryaccompy should listen to the last episode and listen to how much betterit sounds more on different microphones, an there is pruche. The CAP is at thedoor as Marbais. First appearance of PRETHIOUTH pressor podcast ratchet. I Love O O ee, Sir Loud Chatty Baby, not pluck plugger podcast.Do it because we do have someone Ridin in amid the praise for Alice, askingasking her to how to find there are the podcasts which Imentioned in the Atro to the show, but in case there's some people that don'tmake it do you want to give a shield that I can edit in at the start, allright I just beries like. I also have another podcast, which I do with myfriend, Rome, Barriga alte of the Devil's Party, and the purpose of thatpodcast is to examine the development of dark hero, archetypes the. Where didthey come from and where did they go? As said, I feel like we just wrappingup a ser as episodes dedicated to paradise lost. The purpose originallywas to develop this discussion around these characters, but also to create aresource for sort of an undergraduate level university students. So theywould have some sort of help from the wider world when they came to thesetexts, because often universities have to rush through them really quickly andit gives them a lot more context and help with her analysis because they'requite difficult to read. So, if you're interested in those kind of text,that's what we're doing we're about to embu on a gothic villain journey andwe're going to look at a lot of fire and works were going a look at Tom Gainovels. It's going to be a great time and you can find us on all of theplatforms of the Devil's Party and on instagramunder the same tag, and you can email us at O that it was party a g medico.Thank you yes! Well, we might be able to do somekind of crossover thing or just plug that a bit more, because that is goingto be relevant to masquerade which toes into the fan of the opera, duckers andGothic villains, and things like that which will talk about then. So, ifyou're interested in hearing more about that, you can go. Listen! Alice's,podcast, which there is a look to now in the episode descriptions. I've addedone in there and we clear. That's all for this episode of unseenacademicals there'll be another one along in a month. But if you can't waituntil then, you can sign up to our patronage and get all the episodes offull month in advance, along with any bernus episodes or specials that end,I'm doing if you're after more of US Alice horse her an podcast of theDevil's Party, which traces the development of the Satenik throughoutromantic and Gothic literature thinks to a bibliography for today show, alongwith the fully reference to foot now, the transcript should be available inthe episode description, thanks for listening and stay tuned for someamusing attics, kissing back on the CAR PAS, bedropping about himselves and just give her up to a itemed Ting heavily,limiting crushing trunk and sot no Dat Putty, like wow red, a Tatambour for contempt, cast Roer intomy shoer Boma. Listen on not another call a tepee branch back an into thetelepen wild. This is I this. I I it is this well. A CAST is wor pot podcast, this quantum stuff that he's doing inthis book as well. This. This is an idea that pressure is broadly obsessedwith that keeps cropping up everywhere, but he seems particularly to have beenobsessed with it at this time in one thousand, nine hundred and ninety onethousand nine hunded and ninety two, because he puts out a book the sameyear, a one thousand nine hundred and ninety two. So he puts out the sameyear. He puts out the first book of his Johny Maxwell Trilogy, which is atrilogy of books, Science Fiction Books for children and in one thousand ninehundred and ninety six. The third book in that series Johnny and the bomb isabout different parallel contemn universes, that these kids go back intime and then they're having to try and avert this fom dropping by jumping intothe parallel universes and things hes.

Just to tie in with my bull share.There's a reference to all through the series there there's a reference tothese kids watching Star Trek, which is of interest to make such just writtenan article about Star Trek. There will be in the science fiction study specialissue on food features, do out mid next year on yeah, there's references tothem and there's a reference where they talk about vegans and he says whichagain is of interest to me with the vegetarian things I say, there's areverence to vegans and he says no, you mean Vulcans, which is the Rosin staticas I've just written an entire article about the VULCANS are Vegan. So I thinkthat's incidental, but as an interesting coincidence, to me of moreRelevance to Lords and ladies, is in Stephanie Gibberts, two thousand andseven thesis Elfland revisited. She talks about how Pretas elves theincompatibility with iron, where it's because of the magnetic stuff. I likethat as an explanation, but also they have green blood because they can'thave iron based blood, so practice a counter for this by giving them copperbased green blood other, as she points out star trek originally made pointedear, Green blooded creatures famous, which is the Vulcans Ivan Yeah, who are who are the elveslike in the Star Trek fantasy science fiction thing. All of that isincidental, but it's a weird like mishmash of all these things comingtogether, so yeah have you got everything out you wantedto get out as if a and, if you said everything you want to say on thepodcast, I think it was a Turk, okay, well clearly, who ever read that isdumb as hell. So do you want to phrase that differently,or am I keeping that on the FONCA, not keep it? Okay,.

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