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7A – Carpe Jugulum - Part 1

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Episode 7A of Unseen Academicals, discussing Carpe Jugulum and exploring Pratchett's subversion of the triple goddess, magpie rhymes, Gothic landscapes, modernisation, notions of progress, "quilted" signifiers and more!

We were going to do a deep dive in to the history of the vampire a a literary type in this episode as well, but we haven't had time to record it yet and I think there's enough in this first part for i to be its own episode, so all the vampire stuff will come in parts 2 and 3!

B, I sing the introduction to thisepisode that we're going to talk about a bunch of things and then also talkabout the history of Vampires as a literary type we didn't get around torecording. That second part. Yet so that's going to be shunted to thesecond part, which will be all vampire focused, might still end up being splitinto two different episodes will see how that goes. But, yes ignore anything.I say an introduction about US talking about Vampires and this episode we sortof like the words and ladies episode, we're talking about everything else inthis part and then in the later parts were going to go in real, deep onvampires. Also sorry for the patchy audio quality that, in terms of actualsound, I don't think it's too bad, but it has been stitched together, Eaglestyle from two different recordings, and I've had to go in and cup it andyeah about try and balance it all. So I think it's okay, but yes, compromisedrecording situations and time, and everything means that this doesn'tquite sound as good, nor contain as much as I wanted it to. But here it isour patrons have had this episode for a week now and I think in the atro stillsays you get it a month in advance, we're thinking about reuting that it'sprobably going to be a week in advance from now on. But yes, if you do want toget these episodes earlier and get the second partisan as it come out, do signup there patrono Dr Prometheus pod or otherwise, wait until we have time todo it all. I guess hopefully we'll be able to record it and have it out soon,but we'll see you how we go anyway enjoy the show a son Josh now and we are the unseenacademicals and today we are back to talk about the final whiches book, thesix FIANCEES. Well, there's the tiphany aging ones, but we're going to do themin four years. Yeah we're going to do them right at the end. This is thefinal of the like renny weather, Vax Margrat, although she's not really init. For she a is why she warned as the last one, but that the ads before theybecome the tickin aching ones. The twenty third book in the disquise iesover also about halfway through the series at this point yeah, so I can'tbe juggle them wearing the Lancer. Witches must have been the kingdom froma malicious family of obewole and back piers, while in the midst on multipleidentity crises, and in this episode we are going to use the book to explorethe concept of the triple guys, which will be revisiting magpies landscapes,concepts of modernization and progress, and the history of the VAPI has aliterary type, among other things, alice in honor of the roothold Dagaswore a cap podcast for the final time of the witches series. Would you pleasename some number of, as you like, and some number of thingsthat you did not about Carbo, jugular, okay, okay and I'm on the spot yeah. Ihave just sprung this on else because we're in the middle of power a I haveno electricity. So US me in my house all day, while I've been working withmy microphone at home, hence the early once Necati Call Sam quality were gone back to a year ago. Okay, twothings I like. I do go okay, yet low e Goas Fun, I always like Grebo and hewas back and it's funny yeah can I just say it was funny I so I was good Godgood. I think that is the stand out funny one in his or her comments aboutthe what's. His name merits crit yeah. I didn't like it and I go it. What didI like? HMM thing like we're going to get into it when we talk about boringstuff is in like I liked it, but it wasn't wired enough. You know I like domore. I liked it okay, so just like the book think so I think I just like this.This is cool, especially after last week, yeah as a as a Howe, you likeroughly compared to the other books, because I is my favorite, Oh reallyyeah. I still like, obviously, which is abroad that was very fun and war thanladies was very fun, but this was my favorite book to read like I wastelling people I was busy, so I could read the book right, yeah, that's whatr yeah, okay, because yeah! This is more a part than maddy's favorite disco,which is every time I ask, go like why it's just like, because bar players arecalled that by Sackley, as well as I'm discovering just as being on anawakening. Yea E get there, but it's one, that's yeah! It's never reallystuck with me, I'm not a disliked it well. Actually I did this like when Idid the big. Like re Rin, my his saying I went through a mall for this. Ireally didn't like this book more initially, when I reread it the thing Iwas going to say. The one thing I like about this book is the first time ofthe book. In those one thing I don't like about as good as the second putTar, that's fair, and that was that he better right, but then I did reread itlike in between when we did massgoing this one now, and I really liked it thesecond time which is because I've Gone Donalda, vampire research and I'mgetting a bit more of a take, but also just some of the problems. I thought Ihad with it the first time weren't as much so I think I wasn't reallyengaging with it. Probably the first time. For me. It's probably still youknow midway. This is on the Lords and ladies and and equal rights would bethe two for me and then this is probably in the middle with which isabroad, okay, yeah, but yeah. I think it's cool, I think, there's some coolvarpagoing on as we will get to a wink.

As for specific things I like and doinglike about the book, I have one thing I like, and even though yes, I have said,I like this book over all in terms of picking things, there's some littlethings about it. This was a little thing, yeah yeah! I have one thing:Well, the the called the neck MC figl. I Yes, one thing that I really like about thisbook is Granny's crisis of confidence yeah. I love seeing like the bit of thestart when she's all annoyed, because they didn't invite her to the weddingand Cheeseboro, but that the is very relatable, yeah and and storming off to be likefine, if they don't be, was very jus actually now think about it, yeah. Yes,what we've discovered is that granny is a messy bitch who lives for drama. So yes, I really like that. As apremise I don't know if they quite they prochi quite nails. The resolution onthere, but all the granny stuff up until they find out lag in the cave. II think is like pretty good a pretty yeah good character, development stuff.As for now, I have a longer list of things. I don't I dislike, but they'renot like book breaking things that just like little things arm like. I don'tknow about that. That's here, because you read it six times and I got up oneI I or this one year, three or four in the last week and a half folksy have it.I have not Raniere if, once in the last week, yeah one of the things that arelike the magpies when I get it it's annoying. It just seems like somethingthat I don't have a down there: okay, yeah. I think it's A. I think it's anEnglish thing that even then I'm not sure it. Another thing I don't like iswhich we already mentioned: the macmac feeble, a ell only because I don't getthem well, theyre Scottish yeah, but they become like a whole thing inthe the tiffics. They work really well there. So it's not that I don't likethem, but it's that they don't really belong in this book, going back to itafter having done that would have made more sense to just introduce them therebecause they're from this other place and they and their characterization inthis book is very different from their characterization in the tiffany achingbooks of their different plans, and this is like progerin that book writthe Lee Freeman. Yes, that we free man is two thousand and three. This book isnineteen. I didn't say I the start. I think this book- One Thousand Ninehundred and ninety seven- is that right on one thousand nine hundred and ninetyeight so yeah like five years later, like obviously had this idea and he putin the next, he didn't know he was going to write this other book lay that,but I just think, because they went on to be such a big part of the TIFATAseries. They don't really work here and they do seem to be just like this weirdminor side plot that I don't really know what they're doing there. I kind of dislike the side lining ofnanny and Magra and Agnes yeah terms of it does it's. This is meant to be. Isaid I like the premise about granny's crosses of confidence, but then it doesjust become about ranny sat in the day, it's sort of under minds that yeah andlike nanny Magrina Nes, will get sent off to a different kingdom to not dealwith Lunka anymore. So I sort of I didn't like that, and one thing Ithought I just liked that I come around on his initially didn't like that.There was no agree bow, then he was right, but he was to use. Why don't hehave great or there yeah he's been a character in the last few books or hewasn't in Las and ladies, but he was in. I mascate was a huge finos gray andalso in which, as a road, he kills a Anvile Yeah Yeah. He is the man its I'mlike hang on. The varies are coming: Let's go, get our vampire reading catand sit in loose and he's just not in the story. Maybe he's playing a longgame. Oh yes, but then on the on the raired. Oh He's been sleeping in thecoff on the entire time and kills the vampire. So I thought the A was a goodway of having grey bone out there yeah. So that's what I kind of like. That'swhat we think about it. Unless you have anything more odie in the generaldiscussion, part E, O E and we're not the only ones that like it, becausethis is the third wishes book that Andran Butler gives five out of five inhis pocket guide. You would say well deserved. In this case yeah, I don't, Idon't think it's a five. U of five well, just because of that, like thesidelining of nanny and migrant and stuff, I don't think, is quite there Ithink, on first reading. I would have given it a three and on second reading,for maybe four and a half. Yes, that's that's where I'd go butyeah, but let's see, gives a five out of five and he says that not sincesmall guards or Lords and ladies has prechede Lt with such palpable evil andevil, which blows the edges of what is seen is moral, and I think that'sthat's fair. The that pis are pretty malicious billins we do have thewarbash show up in the F E fifth elephant is quite similar to this bookand I think it's only a few later, but they're just sort of that's worth likesociopath IC, a moral is the bar pies, I think, are quite immoral, yes they've.So so I would say yeah. These are maybe, apart from the the LS in laws and,ladies and I would say not until the cunning man in no show where the nightfifteen books later does prace really hit upon such an evil. Villain again,other reviews were generally positive. There was nothing worth writing aboutthem. They were just like yeah. This is...

...a good book. I don't know if, if I'mgoing to be keep doing the critical reception stuff, because there'snormally just not that much interesting to say it, so I like this was includedin lots of books on Tamines. Like is this part of the not at all. Right isthe whole thing, then this is where you come in. I O O it down, but I have so of sort offorged to head without saying what we're going to do here. This is goingto be a true porter if we're lucky, but yeah, potentially a three part orthough well, okay, so the first part that we're doing right now, which isalso going to be a true part of a one parter, because I've onty written halfof it, because I don't have any power here, we're going to talk about somegeneral things in the book and then I'm going to the history of vampires as aliterary type and their origin in the the literary tradition and developmentthere, then, for the second part we're going in because I've read all of theirpay books, all of them at least sixty, and we are going to sort of break downthe different chopes and see how they have changed. So things like garlic andsunlight and stuff, like that, the specific treatments of things that willbe an entire second episode that will go through. So we're not really goingto talk about the far by things, I'm thinking about it as vampires as aliterary type and Vampires and son ontological type. If I can use my bigword, so yes, what how varies have been written and what vampires are there thetwo episodes? Then there will perhaps be a third episode that it might be aquasi bonus episode about vegetarian vampires aren't really in this book,but are enough that I can go off about them, because this is something thathas been bubbling away in my mind for a while, and we also may have a specialguest for that one, I'm not sure will work that I really so. This willprobably see us through to the end of the year and we'll do it a rap upepisode and then start with the death books in the New Year, because I also Iare busy en I'm working multiple jobs at thispoint. Yeah team, your question as to Ye do van: Does this shop in in Van pitproduced discussion? Sorry, yes, I've spent the last couple of months readingall the van pit books watching all the vampire movies and reading all thevampire scholarship selling glad right now I have not seen Carbajo mentionedin a single work of secondary vampire criticism. Tis Not even as all there'sthis book as masquerade and actually must co Lanier. Perhaps like geneprejudice and things like that or people just don't know it's there orpeople, don't people who are doing that, don't necessarily retract it or what Ithink the the vampire thing and we will get to this more in wild the end inthis episode. Eventually, when I read it that vampire scholarship isinterested in like these different phases and there's like the the NitaCentury stuff, the the bironic set for the origins and everything, and thenyou get like Dracula stuff and how that's played with in the twentiethcentury, and then it becomes this young adult moving into a romantic sort ofthing we were at now and they are the different phases and cabage on doesn'treally fit into any of those neatly, because another thing, that's kind ofweird about Cape Juggling. There are a few other examples, but most vampirefiction is set in the real world right. It's urban fantasy, whereas carpetJugglin is an example of vampires in fantasy world, which is quite likestill as a thing that people tend not to talk about as much or it's not asmuch of a thing as you think, or it definitely wasn't. All that I read is ateenager n right, but that was probably all written after carpet, judgelings neby Robin McKinley from two thousand and three, which is the next time I list toread. I haven't actually read this yet that is a fantasy one. That seems tohave a bit of a reputation. But yes, normally it's a the vampires are set inthe real world. So it's the whole trope like as we're going to talk about liketrack ees what if the old world came to the new world yea. So when you takethat theme out of it, it's quite a different mode of themes that it'sdealing with, but also so project doesn't really fit into any of thesecategories neatly and is also like right on the cusp of the ending of thetwentieth century. Sympathetic Vampire thing in the beginning of the modernromantic for long Ad Vamp, I think so I think it's a matter of timing andfantasy genre, stuff yeah. So there's a number of reason was why prate doesn'treally neatly fit in. But again I haven't even mentioned it like Lordsand ladies, didn't get a whole lot of critical attention, but there werestill like, oh when he, when we were talking about midsummer night street,and they would mention Prate, read a book about it. Yeah, not a singlemention of carbajal and an do so. I'm going to write one yeah. Do that I'll?Try, Oh yeah back to the server, so I think I'm going to take the reviewsection out just in general. We might. We might still talk about what AndrewEnron Butler his rankings and stuff because I think they're fun to followalong with, but I haven't found anything interesting in the secondaryreviews and they're hard to find, and I don't really care so unless I find anything particularlyinteresting, we might drop them something. I'm pretty sure I found in areview and then didn't write down and haven't been able to find, because Ithink there was a reviewer and, if I ever have enough time to do thetranscript for this. I will put the note in there when I find it someonesomewhere was I making a snack comment...

...about how Caper Jugglin, which is seas.The throat ll go for the throat which made used to have written on herfencing mask yeah. It's pretty good can lenchar.Ironically, it was my trade mark removed to stand people on the throatshe would jump around and smack him on the back of the head. Yeah someonesomewhere was pointing out the Cuba. Ug Lime isn't actually like correct LatinI'll piss off right, but also there's what he wanted. Yes,but also, incidentally, Prachi has stumbled upon something connect to theHAP by traditionally doing this, because in one thousand nine hundredand Fifty Eight hammair Film Dracula or horror of Jacker, which has PeterCushing who's, grandma, O Takin ramstairs. As van helsing andChristopher Lee, who you may know a Sirama as Dracula, and I think, isprobably the best of the Campe like Old Dracula, merries isdefinitely better than the universal ones which yeah they're a bit of a slug,but drakes family crest is shown bearing the Latin Motto Fidelis etMorton. So I wanted to find out what this meant yeah. So I hunted down thetranslation of this folly crest. I found a twenty fourteen block post tartof making sense of Tracoma Mono by University of leads lecture. pennewillbe good man where they attempted to translate the motto and, as they pointout in a future, it called the demon lover from the two thousand andThirteen Dad or blue ray release of horror of Jack. A bat by a scholar.Christo frailing translates the moderate players faithful and dead.With that translation, also being repeated by film art, historians,Marcus Hone and Jonathan Rigby on the debts commence track. So this is sortof the official line of want to translate us. However, as Goodmanpoints out, Morton is a noun, not Anaga, and therefore means death not dead,which combined with the Latin word order, makes the mode and deathfaithful rather than faithful and death. It's actually, as it threaten itsEndeth, faithful, which, as Goodman points out, is a bit meaningless andGoodman says it was likely that they were aiming at something more likeFidelis, ad mortem, which is perfectly good, Latin and means faithful and truedeath, which is also the motor of the New York City Police Department. I, butthis is all to say that, within the Dracula tradition, the vampiretradition, there is at least one significant instance of an incorrectly frace Latin, so I been practice is doing upon on oncarved yeah, there's no way you do this. I thought maybe we're going to arguethat he did it, because he knew about that. Oh now, yeah! So No, I don'tthink so, but I think it's a yeah a coincidence that that actually lines upwith something. So I thought that was interesting, being something moresignificant and definitely deliberate to cover. Jager is the treatment ofthis triple goddess archetype that we were talking about last episode on massgrate and Weirly enough. The idea of the trible God ask the Virgin themother and the Crown Again, incidentally, ties in with Dracula inthe vampire tradition, because the earliest of Bran Stokes notes for Writing Dracula, which you can getthere's a book of them. Is the scene with drakes three wives right, thethree vampire women with a deleted passage in the type script, comparingthem to the three witches in Macbeth Nice, John Han Hawker, the right theguy. They are attacking the narrator in that section of Dracula, remarking fora fear to see those weird sisters. How right was Shakespeare? No one wouldbelieve that after three hundred years, one could see in this fastness ofEurope the counterpart of the witches of Macbeth. So yes, again, incidentally,by combining witches and vampires, we got. We had some nod to the conceptionof vampires themselves. The editors of stogas notes also claim that, incontrast to the Weird Sisters and Draculas Castle Lucy and me, none inDracula ride the two girls that Dracula comes and fabaris es, O the virgins andtreasures of Ramstein micawber fairy tale. I don't know what that means, butit does set us up for our first aspect of the triple grones that you want totalk about, which is the Virgin Yeah, which is, you know, probably the mostpertinent to bad pies as well, because, as everybody knows, because everyoneknows things about bad pires, their players are always after virgins ontheir wedding night, and I think this goes back to that idea of the stagesbeing like the energy, giving right you're a virgin on your wedding night,you're expected to not be a virgin anymore. So you get your power, yourenergy, taken by the Patriarchy Vampires, now ye as wet the energy, theI W N Patriark by taking her or Vedas all the Patriot. Okay, is the MI didn'tcome the patriotes still take the VERGINE's energy? Well, yes, okay, butit's like evil Patriarchia yeah, as opposed to no evil patriarchy. I meanfrom socus point of view from Jonathan Harker is the good patriarque. I meanit's racism, Yeah Yeah Amodio, Patasthe...

...yeah, but so I mean that's pretty clear,a symbolism because, like weirdly until Barn Vampires are mostly female rightthere. These sucky best light ghost apparitions that come in and yet takepeople's blood in the night, and then Byron and Dracula Really Cummit malevampires as the archetype and through Jacula. Specifically, as we will gointo all this in painstaking detail, laider paint speaking yeah yeah, thedraco stands for a lot of things, but one of the things he pretty clearlystands for is it's men and women right. Women are the victims, the male is theoppressor, and that is pretty consistent until about the nets. It'sinteresting because it's a variation on the Gothic theme. You know like theinnocent virgin woman being toyed with by the gothic villain, because, likethis we're going to talk about this is the variation on the Gothic. Isn't itso it's just curricular is let's hand that Mac real yeah, but, like you know,you get you get red cliff in the monk and everything, and then dracula comesin the nineteenth century. You know so it's like it's yeah, the next iteration,I guess in Gothic billains and it's more dreadful, penny dreadful, strap yourselves in he's, been veryOmai, haven't and coming up with them right now. An a messages I haven't havepetty dreadful, as speaking most of them are one or ones I have found inother tanpits right like when Fer Parella knows drack ority so in he is one thousand nine hundredand twenty eight English translation of the Melia smaller for Kara British, thewaces. How the, which is how I, which we've talked about the Britishclergyman. Montagu Summers wrote Selecta Young Lad, who is a pure maidenput it on a young stallion who has not mounted his first mayor cold blackwithout a speck of white riding to a cemetery in and out among the grades,and if there is one that the horse refuses to pass, that is where they'regoin t PIOLI. Sorry at the Horse is just picky. I is male. Human and horse virgins been usedto detect vampire, but it also recalls right. The idea that the virgin is theonly one who can tan the Unicorn, which was granny's roll in Lords and, ladieswhich I think I said in the lead up to this art. There's a lot of stuff incave jug in that sort of undermines its idea of granny as as the virgin currentyeah. But I think I was getting it all mixed up, because it's really theintimation that she's a virgin comes from Lords and ladies yeah, but I stillthink it's there as well yeah China. When I was reading- And I'm like- ohlike this one- it does it's implying yeah and I think there's something tothat in the granny is so powerful because she is a Croon who has not hadher energy sucked yeah by by the Patriarchy, by losing her maidenhood. But then there's something there that plays into these ideas of lake,like their by stuff, is or don't don't sleep around, because you'll lose yourpurity right. That's the Camilla stuff! You know during experiment, sexuallywise you'll leave your purity, so there's something about granny. That, like is subverting thistrope, that she's the virgin crone, but is also reinforcing these kind of on soprudish, but puritanical traditional yeah notions of sexualpurity. That they're part of the reason why granny is so powerful is that shenever gave in to sexual temptation yeah or you know it was too busy, but getbusy and say she's busy and had other things on, but there's something therethat she is able to defeat the vampire because she never gave in to temptation. So Jennifer Jill fellows, provides acanteen and ELP a canton analysis of Grana philosophy of not treating peopleas objects and anting themselves, O we're not talking about that. But inthat analysis fellow says that weatherwax women have always had onefoot in shadows. It's in the blood and most of the power comes from denying itand continues that granning weather axes power comes from self denial fromnot giving in to what she wants to do, and instead holding fast what she oughtto do. So there's a couple of things here: oneis that emphasis of wanton arts which are written in Italics, so our fellows isemphasizing the so if we apply that to the Virgin thing right, she wants tohave sex, but she ought not to I so there is that implication, but alsothere is the idea of it being in the blood thatthere's also this heritage angle, which we've mentioned a couple of times. Buthere's where you get right, you get the familiar conduct, connection to BlackHouse. You get the idea of gratings blood itself being powerful, incontrast to everything that was sort of unbalanced averted in equal rightswhere you simly starts yeah. So you know, I'm proud, it's not saying it'sall biology or heritage that the people who don't have that heritage can't beone. I mean the reason. The reason s was so powerful. What, because of meheritage, so there's something going on there with the natural disposition,natural inclination which of course...

...goes into the tar pig stuff which willtalk more about in part two, but that players are so powerful or behave incertain ways. Because of their lineage and maybe surly witches yeah, I theconnection there. So yes, granny is sort of a you know, Malgamite ofeverything right, she's, the the perfect mix, yeah she's, a versioncurrent she's got all it. But yes, she in termsof the tribe goddess, she represents the Virgin Crown, which this issomething precious, especially in this book is mixed. These three yeah roles,which are in the other books, the witches have been signed, prettyspecific worlds here, is pretty specifically very blurring them. So inher two thousand and eight Article Nice Code or right, Jenny, Brennan Croft,argues the Grani combines all three aspects of the triplanes in one withnanny herself, observing in the text. That Grannie was a maiden as far asnanny knew, and she was at least in the right age bracket for a crude and asfor the third well cross, grating weather ax on a bad day and you'd belike a blossom in the forest. That's from masquerade, henty know what thatlast. It means. No. I think the implication is that, like she stirsyeah t you're in trouble, yeah, which is that blossom in a Frat yeah you'vedone for, but is that Grady's entire claim to motherhood? Is that you're introuble? If you cross her a that's fair, she's kind of like Malory to ask, butthe whole premise is that she's banning with a grain to, but she she is likematernal qualities through branny like through big grunting. I don't know I'mjust like fit yeah, but that's all I've got really and she, I guess you couldsay she kind of like maternally men towards the others in a weird fuck thatway, but yeah. That's all I got when they are called granning and many yeah,and I so many now I guess you can be a many and raising children are right. Iget that yeah, I don't know if granny welk is really a mother, I I definitelysee the virtues a voter cro, because you're at nanny is Momotaro towardsMagrat and the other yes yeah and I guess granny is more of a mental andlike their maternal qualities, but not as much as many yeah. I'm not sure it'sthere, but like not as much so. I'm not sure about that in the disco, companion,prechant, Brig State that Celibacy has no physical effect on magical abilityand has no relevance to the magical, art, otherwise nanny of would be awasherwoman or or she would be as powful grant right. The reason why man,he is not as powerful as grady. Apart from her Lenette, had say she got it onyeah. I do like when my great comes in andgoes I get all the jokes down is like even the Blah Blah Blah and she's likeI don't get a tale. Thirty six O come that's good, but as nanny explains toAgnes in copper, Jug Im, she says that ain't really important because it ain'tGoin to technicality, see O me. I don't recognize ever I made mentally right,so this is again subverting that it's not to a chip of mind right. It's not aphysical disposition, so perhaps granny and bodies these things mentally aswell, but then also physically, like there's a little bit of an Olot to usethe term. But I can't think of an autentim like a merry sewing to grannythat she's. This perfect mix of everything, I think, she's a morecomplicated version of that, but she is always she's, also the greatgranddaughter of the Most Hatful which and that most powerful, which wasn'tthat bad actually and yeah yeah there's a lot yeah. So grating is one of thevirgins in Cavagum but of course, the moretraditional role of the version he is played by Agnes and carvajal and, ofcourse, she's subverting this idea of virgins and back mires, which for therecord versions of our plies. It is a thing by implication that it's on theirwedding night, often tepie, aren't that discriminating in whoar. I justcoincidently happens to be virgins all the time, but I haven't come acrossanything that stipulates you must have a virgin blood. That seems to besomething that's picked up, but as Tanzy Rana Roberts rites in projetswomen, she rated upon revisiting carpet jugger. She discovered to her surprise.It was now her favorite granny weatherwax book mostly drew to thetreatment of Agnes writing that Vlad spins most of the book trying toseduces, and there are implications of a quota unless showy potential romancebetween she and oats and celebrating romantically desirable fat women infantasy fiction for the win. She also writes considering the thematicimportance of Agnes's weight in masquerade. It's refreshing that it'snot remotely relevant to CARPAEA. The only time I her fatness is evenreferred to is when the bitch female, Vampire Lacroma uses it to insult her,and that tells us a lot more about lacky than Agnes, and I agree with this,but I still think the fat jokes in this book are a law yeah. There are a lot,it's not just that it there's a lot of fat jokes. Yes, I ont be that as Rayeah, so I don't know if this is a as positive a portrayal of Agnes, as Iguess it's better than a grade, but it's not yet good. It's still definingpart of her personality, I guess so wonderful personality, so I don't knowhow did you feel because you were? I...

...said one of the things I liked aboutmacraes agnes, and you didn't really you liked him more here. Yeah and Icome on here. I feel like he's like, like I like the pedite and hear there'smore going on there there's more discussion, it's funny. It's yeah, it'sinteresting yeah. So is the role of the Virgin, and we also have the role ofthe mother, which I don't really have much to say that, because I think, asbe said in the last podcast, it's not really Prohari is favus ing on the rollof the current in the Virgin, the mother's just sort of hanging out inthe middle, and this is maybe the book where we get the most mother stuff. Ithink it's where we get the most nanny, but we also get Magrat transition frommaiden to mother, with Agnes hearing Perdita. Think I don't like Magra she'snot like. She used to be well, of course, she's not but she's takingcharge, she's, not cringing, slightly like she used to she's, not wet. That'sbecause she's, a mother, agnes thought mothers are only slightly damn, which is cool except after this Magracompletely disappears as a character ye a right, Borgert future book. Shedoesn't play a wrong intil, the shepherds crown where she shows up kindof, but also in this book. I didn't. I like the idea of Madra being able to bethis kick as mother, except I just found all she does is like carry aroundbaby change, tables and stuff. She doesn't actually do anything is, but asit was kind of funny, but otherwise yeah she's kind of disempowered,especially after, like the last time we saw it was when she was kicking, alsotaking names in yeah. It's a ladies here she's just bumbling around yeahand being like. Oh, you did don, often appies yeah. Why didn't she girl? Overon kind of like a yeah he's mocking that idea of mother wood, like newmothers who were worrying, and things like that, you know yeah yeah, which Ithink is amusing, but is not balanced with like any kind of Ye new foundcapability. So it's sorry it's kind of a step backfrom Magrat. She definitely doesn't come off as confidently as she did atthe end of Lords. Some ladies versely yeah. We have many heros. I think wehave the best characterization or the most characterization now he's mostlyaround to just say funny things in the background in the earlier books where,as here, she is a driving force, we get a lot more of her own motivations she's.Also not right about anything. Yes, every every decision she makes hiswrong and, like her and Magrat, think that man he's put her she's borrowedlike Puttin a consciousness in the child or whatever, and like for nannyto know where so well and not get that I thought was. I didn't like that. Sheknew what, where she'd be like, they go of on the Funda Cave and she's likeright. What's up you know and over then granny just tells her to Piss off andthen she's like? Oh, I guess we piss off then like I was sort of annoyed that, like nanny,seems very lost as a crone, which I do it he's getting getting used to it like.Well, I think that's part of it is that she is like I'm not suited to being achromic like. I am a mother and she is such a mother like she is the mostmother. She also has her own kind of inity crasses like lot yeah. I thinkit's just her incapable like she is almost as powerful as granny. I can'tremember if it's this book or what this physic quote is but there's a thingwhere she says. The only reason that I'm not the most fair thing is becausegranny is but that's implying that like she's formidable as well, but he sheseems completely ineffective, so that kind of bothered me but yeah not muchto say about the mother, because I don't think projects that interestingin the world really. But yes, what he's interested here is the role of thecrown and Granny's reckoning with that and, as Roberts argue is in projects.Women Portrait Subverts, the female victim gets the better of the vampiretrope, which I can't actually come up with that many examples of I got a need:a Blake Feri Hunter, although she stopped that as a ARPI hunter sayingwith buffy right. I can't actually think of an example ofARPI fiction where the female victim tramps on me. They have a mail savioror they are already then yeah. Maybe I will look through my list and come upwith one later, but by employing a completely passive method, Grannieliterally lies down and lets them drink her blood and allows the results to bedevastating. This is Robert saying this again. It's one of the best examples Ican think of of how the strong women characters top has rented so many typesof female, strict than visible, saying that any female hero who acts otherthan violent and aggressive while also being sexy, is often derided by criticsas a weak, passive or sexist character. While those who act in traditionallymasculine active ways are treated as the only female heroes were celebrating so there's something going on here andthat yes like when we're talking about it, need a blake or like a series ofbooks, called a need: a bake fat by Hunter, the come out in the early s perto buffy stuff, it's essentially true blood, but staring buffy. And yes, ofcourse, you get buff in the middle of the of the varies in the middle of theS S. These are women. Taking on traditional mascon rolls or that's whatI far valley girl was man housing it? No. I realized when we're watching themovie like the title Buffy, the Bapier is a joke like imaginaires slay namedBuffy, like that, is it itself meant to be a jerk where, as nowadays buffymeans vampires like yeah, it's almost a similar. I come not quite not at all so there's something going on herewhile saying that granny is using her...

...passive power to defeat the vampires,and that makes her more feminine. But then that also inherently says thatbeing passive is a Feminine Act. So I don't know you got anything. So you puta part of Copper Jug. The ME is the idea that they're all moving up rollsright, they're all progressing with Megara becoming the mother and hebecoming the crown and that leads granny with nowhere to go so she'sbecomes concerned about cackling, which, again this is a reference I didn't havetime to hump down and find out, but somewhere I read, I don't know it was.I was how boy back den who talked about how cackling liketraditionally was applied to gossip. So rather laughter was like chatteringwomen, that's right, yeah. So this idea of granny being concerned that she'sgoing to start to cackle ties into this idea of, like don't cackle, don't talkto other women right and that sort of stuff yeah. So back Tom Rights in rableand his world, the traditions of brutes realism are even more feasible andnarrow in seventeenth century ledgers, with its dialogue, we have a here inmind the cackle of the confined women, a short piece which was published inseveral instalments in sixteen twenty two and seems to have been composed byseveral authors. It presents the usual female gathering at the bedside overwoman recovering from childbirth. In this particular piece, the author eathdrops on the women's channel while hiding behind a curtain, and thisfemale copple is nothing but gossip and tell tell yes that's this idea, wherewe just have a further layer of Saxon, two yeah. So it's associating lifewhich is and women with this like threat of gossip, which men and wellyeah a part of the threat of witchcraft, is that it's not a single woman. I saycommunity if the gang up on us what do than Patriarchy Yeah? Okay covil reads:Grannie it's going off to die as a defensive UPHAMS. What yeah she says:Projects Defensive Euthanasia was not only motivated by his own condition.His view had already been a parent in works, written before his diagnosis andCarpe Jugglin. For example, Granny States at there are times when you needto show people the way when a mind is a rage of pain and a body has become itsown worst enemy and when people are simply in a prison, made a flesh, wowyeah. I wasn't really on board with this, but that's some pretty clear,permutation top going on there right, yeah, okay, I'd seen that interesting.So, but that does lend some something too, that this is a broader ideology ofPRECIS, not just a response to. He is Elsie Stones Yea. I thought that wasvery specific, but very astute observation, but yeah. So those are thethree traditional roles but, as I mentioned before, what Carpet JungleLim is more about. Is the blending and blurring of these roles creating hybridroles? So, despite starting with the subversion of female wizards in equalrights, as Croft observes in the dissents between the archete roles ofthe real and the real people, filling them real people, that's in fictionalcharacters and PRASIATA reinforces his message. That stories cannot be allowedto dictate roles to people. So, yes, the hybrid roles we have in CAPPA JUGin or at least as I ate it, then we've got brandy. Who was the Virgin Cronewe've got macgreg, who was a maiden mother right? I got nanny who's the mother carryingis that yeah? I checked out her checks out, obviously, but as Lauren Andersonobserves in her two thousand and six masters these this, what which, whichis which the role of tiffany aching, which we are going to talk aboutbriefly here. This is branny's. Future apprentice is more complicated. Sheappears at first to be the weight, yet is too powerful for that. So this islike mcgranahan. She is more the precursor of the ice cream, stereotype,powerful and unattainable and rights that it will be interesting to see whatprage does with her and future novels. If she shows up again, perhaps she willrepeat gray's maiden to crow in transition. Anderson's writing this intwo thousand and six you never got through all the tiffany ape books rightsorry, this is exactly what happens right. It sort of looks like from from thestart of the tiffany aching series. Tiffany is being set out to have aromantic relationship with the baron son Roland who she recues from thefairy kingdom, but that gets a banon pretty quickly, which is cool, and thenshe has a later relationship with Simon. I think it is who wants to become adoctor, but then he moves to like more pork and human tivity become too busyto see each other. This is what happens with graddy and wood colleague yeah,but right when the series ends right, granny weatherwax is old or actuallyshe did in the shepherd's crown right. The series ends with prated with themnext time, but she's she's a a virgin crone, whereas tipene aching. At thatpoint, I think it's sixteen in the last seven year e book, so it's just cominginto woman who er so I would say, rather than being a virgin crone asgranny, is she is a crewing virgin? Okay, do you see any meaningfuldistinction? They already, she haven't really read the books, but in that sheis a young person who was taken on crime like attributes yeah, whereasGrannie is an older architype that retains the younger archetypesqualities. Tiffany a king is a younger. I A typewho has achieved the older right at all, so they sort of the same. But it's a Fiwill explore that more when we get to...

...those books, and we also have sreappearing again, and I shall wear midnight where I think she's a mothercrone right. This is the last combination that we don't really have.We have Nanibozho not really a successful crone, whereas escapers,just as like in a single scene, but shows up from an alternate futuredimension, but is an old age lady, but has two children with her. She still isit yes yeah they meant to be. I think I said Simon before was tiffany's loveinterest is in Simon the name of s, love interest in the IT Preston.Preston is the guy who's the doctor who to me yeah now it's implied thatAskinson moved into a parallel dimension and running off and down thecorridors of time having kids but yeah. She appears very elderly, but his readyto be she's out of time right. It's pretty cool. I do like I show whenmidnight, but the point of all this is that people are complicated and don'tfit as architect, malts, which I think is what projects. Clearly, thestatement he's clearly trying to make in this book as his final statement inthe witches series He's played around with these molds and at the end gods,but that's not how it works right. This is part of the idea of stories tellingyou how to live your life. It is that you don't have to fit these times yeah.So before we get into the exploration or vampires there's a couple of things.I want to talk about and a couple of things I don't like, because the firstof these is is the magpies thing, so you didn't get the ether yeah becauseit is. It is an English in my officer to if you know I went to count lot andlike it is an open, because I had never heard and have never heard with withone exception of this outside of the context of carpet juge, but you hadyeah okay, because I just I was like what is this nine point thing yeah I s.it's just thing you can't like I right and of course I realize there's a jokeis camp to make pie yeah. I didn't get that yeah yeah, but I did I get thatnow when I, when I wrote it down count the a but I gaines is like youmeant to count the ten fine. I don't know yeah it's just for like it's likea a as like it does, and it's not really a thing.Yeah I mean the Association of the Vampires with Magpies in this book islike a play on the association with wolves and rats and things a Jacula andother there by stuff. There is one other book where Vampires arespecifically said to be able to transform into birds and man. I StevenKing Salonik, so there you go, there's going to be a lot of this of me. Justdropping in by the way is a yeah. So that's the first of those and also isyour personal story. So when I, when I started re reading this in preparationof the podcast like that day, I saw re reading this because we used to live inschools by where the football team is the magpies, because there's MAG pieseverywhere right. We used to have like magpies all over front morn and showyou we go out and try and fight on. Then I was like no showy. They twiceyou size, they will kill you the course, but so I used to see my plays all thetime. Then we moved to the new house, didn't see any MAC pies the day Istarted rereading on this book. I wold out the window. A Magpie learns on thebalcony stairs at be through the window. I soonder that's a man. I come on fuckme up, but prosit and Simpson actually talkabout magpies a bit in the fork. Lov Dis well saying that Magpie'sreputation as these is connected to the Italian composer. Do you want to dothis? One Yakin Go Ki, no Rosini his opera, the thieving Magpie, where awoman is sentenced to death for stealing a silver spring that wasactually stole by Tepi, am Approcha Simpson right that it is said they willeven fly down to hell if there is a bag of gold to be found there to whichIreson who says he say, come on citations, even who says there magwirefly down to help. Not Me not anything. I looked at and I know a lot about youold person an come across my po e T. I want not even in Spencer, which is youknow, a big companion with lots of symbols and what they need, but yeah.We have this run that you've heard that I haven't the oldest now in versionpresent Simpson clean in the fork, lor disclaris, whereon, seventeen, eightyand Lingas, which has three for a wedding and four for a death in a so tofor Joe to for running full for death. Well, you know this. It's just bat forme for years, I'm like what is that we had met. Potin cover, Tunku alternateversions given by precendent in in the footes, were include seven for a witchwhich I just thought was interesting, since we had the equal right, seven,something of course she's the eight sons, it's eight for a wizard, or maybeseven for a wig eight for a wizard who, as he's ever seen, eight bag pays alsoat once. I inscribe on the front line yeah and the other one. They have isfive for heaven, six for hell, seven and you'll see the devil himself. I'mgoing to go Clinton, make pies. Add questions right. Well, I thought thislike you've gone down the numerology path right so, but this is Biblicalnumerology thing: Where Five is heaven six is hell: Seven is seven L E.Remember the Alans bus yeah. He an Don know why you see thedevil himself. I mean. I know it because if slip nother, Tocat them, of course, since if you're, five, five five- that I'm sixsix six because they're that ass, I'm...

...not sure whether seven comes into it. Idon't know what seven minutes. It's just a number. You know it's been, you know it's the lumber over on thinksto mean things. Yes, for the last time, you had a whole explanation. You havenothing here. I think it's just a good number. Why, like, if I say pick the best o theway o? I did you for sure. I the best number, how many people reconoiter? No,not many. I think people are OI. Seven is like lucky seen you go to try and beindividual really, so you think people double guess themselves of also good, aidea of having a favorite number in nine. Well, so you didn't pick seven ifI'm a favorite number of these days- and I was a kid, my favorite membersfor six and two okay yeok fat, but the only time I've encountered this magbything, which was recently so I've gone on thirty years, without seeing thismake my bit anywhere else. Well, I read this when I was thirty. Actually thirty and a half, there is a referenceto magpies in the second one on future King Book, the which, in the wo for onethousand nine hundred and tirty nine in which King Polno tells us the RoundTable Night Palamedes, he saw seven Maget pies, which, as make pie, sevenMaga plies flying along like from pans. How do you fly like frank and follyflying trying plans by like my past, ye? Don't get it, but that's the quit. Yeahyeah good yeah I flying along, like frying pans, a reciting one for Sorr,two for joy, three for marriage and four for a boy. So seven ought to befour boys when fantasizing about having started a family with the Queen ofFlanders, daughter, picky. So there's something there about seven or to beingfour boys. I thought you might have something to say about the magpies andthe nemeral Y, but you don't. I might have a theory, but why the man pas areimportant because right, the whole point is that the magpies are trying tosupe kind of superstition. People think they know things about Banfis andthey're, trying to avert that and all throughout the book, they're counting,magpies and they're. Being like. Oh It's one for O. No, it's two far orit's three fal, so maybe the two different yeah then trying to like thesuperstition is at play and people trying to interpret reality through it.But actually it's not right, but is a really interesting playing to somethingwhen I get and get too shortly about quilting master, signifiers, okay, butyes, that is the only time I've come across this made both in the outside ofCarpajo, so hits. How do I put this in a way that demonstrates my disdain, thethe youtube before the youtubes that be writing the books,whether they be goes fritten or not? They're back right so is a weller isjust written a book with someone else and the they're Gosi there. I don'tknow who those people are, people will know, but the first they're doing it onthe lake. I think it's the first one to go one to some and then two for joy,and they come up on my grade because my best friend is doing at publishingquort and we both scream endlessly about the fact that new shoot was atopping a you know the books on chats the moment, but it's like a Gothic BlahBlah Blah with thout superstition, stuff together, be the magpies of there.So yeah, it's a thing: it's okay, yeah. We also have. I think this is the thirdone now had incidental connection, perhaps through the vampire tradition,just through something randomly practice put in the book. YEA SOR INHE'S ARTICLE ON DRACULA AND THE ANXIETY OF REVERSE colonization. Stephen DArada observes that van helsing rights at the Vampire is the unavoidableconsequence of any invasion. He have followed the wake of the Baserk, a icelarder. The Devil we've got in hum the slab, the Saxon and the Magyar, which is about with a why. So I'm justlooking at that word going that looks like magpie with a why in the PRACTICOand May Cayou have to know if we kind of like kill, free things or gettingaway, so maybe there's an association between them, pies and backfill it butfeel, but the Magi which yet is like well letter away from Magpie at the.Why is a member of a people who originated in the Urals and migratedwestward to settle in what is now hungry in the ninth century? A D right? That's where Dracula andeverything's meant to come from. So it's like. It's decide that reckilectthese invading warrior people, because you know there is implication- cause tatravel. Anies were many O, but I think he's just referred to that general area.Okay, Stokin sources for in his notes to Jacko also include the Reverend WHenry Jones and Lewis El Nos folk tales of the MIAs, so maybe dump Davidthere's something there's something going on there, but I don't know whatit is and it might be incidental. But yes, this is just another way theprecut may be hit on something to do with drake yeah. So another thing thatmay or may not be going on in compage on I'm not sure I M I want to get yourexperts on the house is his emetical is so the influential famaly critic andone of the editors of the Terro Prati guilty of Literaly collection for formEnderson in her book rhetorics of fantasy, she calls and red cliffs themysteries of Delphi from seventeen. Ninety four which he read and I haveknowledge because it's her big, she calls you offer an intruding fantasythat unusually proceeds as a trouble narrativesince. Instead of answeringquestions about the landscape, with God...

...book detail its guide figure, I'm notsure this God figure is you on who the God figures emily, essentially, okay,so the main character yeah intends to teach not just about the land, but theappropriate sensibility that should be brought to the appreciation of thelandscape, which runs through the relationship between intruder andintrusion in the Gothic and its successes. Now that you've explained tome that the guy figure is emily, I do kind of get tex. The one thing Iremember from the first, like forty page of you golfired, is are going onabout the tree constantly right. Look at the tree. It's a hot tree is poetryabout the truth. I fear interesting because the gothic initially worked asa travel kind of genre, because people couldn't visit Europe at the timebecause of the wars right so and wouldn't be able to essentially for ageneration. They couldn't go on their Le Gran to a that's. Why birons were sosecured, circulates so to inters so like, and yet it allows that kind oflike travel through writing that you know got. I guess in TV shows andprogram on documentaries and things, so I don't know that unusually is right,but yeah. Okay, it does proceed as a trana narrative yeah. Now I think she'ssaying that it is a r trouble narrative at unusual. Is it that I is en trulyfancy? I think so I don't know I'm not sure bythat, because the others are the same and the protagonist is the guide andoften it's a female and they like they've, got a sensibility with thelandscape aeeta right. So the idea is, you have someone who's sort of more intouch with nature, telling other people how to treat it no violate the naturalorder, which is something cratch itself with before and yeah the Gothic. HasThis idea yeah? Well, I guess this is where the intrusion thing is coming aslike a like with the hamlet right, you'vegot the day uncle being the unrightful ere. So it's this intrusion upon thenatural outer, maybe not right. That's fine yeah! Somethinglike that. So mendelson argues that for a landscape to become wild as it doesin Gothic fiction, what is impressed upon it or dug up is a belief that thecivilized exterior is merely a mask questions answered in ways thattantalized with knowledge and she gives the following example from me: Delphathat I thought we could read as a dramatic dialogue. Righte have no ideawho any of the characters are. I think I kind of want to be the peasant butlike given that you've read the book I'll. Let you choose yeah sure you canbe the person. What's my motivation, Emeri haven't had a chance rithing. Ihave no context for a all right. So we'll read the differentdialogues and also just read the narration that goes along with yoursection. Yet so you start, which is the way to the Chateau and the woods criedMichael, go, get okay go be we're going, which is a way to the Chateau and theones cried Michel, the chateau or the woods exclaimed a pit peasant. Do youmean that with the Turret Yonder, I don't notice for the tyrant, as youcall it said, Michael, I mean that white piece of a building that we seein a distance there among the trees. Yes, that is the Turret. Why? Who areyou that I m going to that said? The man with surprise say no bear hearingthis odd question, observing the peculiar tone in which it was delivered.Looked out from the carriage we are. Travellers said he who are in search ofa house of accommodation for the night. Is there any here about none Mossieurand his rest? NONE MONSIEUR! Unless youhave a mind to try your luck, Yon Da replied the peasant pointing to thewoods, but I would not advise you to go there to whom does the Chateau belong?I scarcely know myself monsieur it is in hand inhabited. Then, no, not I'minhabited the Stewart and housekeeper there. I believe I'm hearing this Senebi him and shouldproceed to the Chateau and risk the refuse of being accommodated for thenight right. I Know E e. This is from now. UHHH is the start of the book. Itold you there's like a hundred pages of them, just wondering at a fuckingforest. That's I got half went through that, and essentially they do that.That's it they're trying to find somewhere safe to rest, let's, let'sjust make it simple, and that this is then finding the place on the and Ilike the Cheto. I had no idea what this is. I just put it in there. I thoughtit would be fun to read, but I have actually worked it out. Reading that Icause weirdly. I've unlocked this through my weird evil peasant voice,because I went to a weird gothic creepy man like a ses, just a peasant but yeah,because middle some men writes. She gives this as an example of scenes thatwere quote imitated and refined, a many horror, wi riders and later Parodi asin terror, praches carpet, Judge Yeah. That's why I put it in there the copperjuggling reference. Now I didn't get it, but I have an adjust great. This is thedark gorner the castle right yes or telling people not to go places. I read,it is just likee t, it's just saying:...

Don't go to the castle: It's not a bigdit, but yes, it is we right right because it's like all the other thingswe've talked about you know Frankenstein is the scientist he'sturned into the crazy scintilate and all becomes a parody off of the fact.Like the actual gothic horror, things become paroles, yeah, yeah where's,it's a denotable thing in all the rag fish table that it's kind of like inShakespeare. The peasant is always the like the village idiot kind of thing,yeah yeah, that kind of it does a class monkery going on, because I haven'tread it but like this is a safe place they go to when you go for a first yeah right, so there we gotrailers, you Doler Rachet, we brought it all together. Yes, we also have theNali country continuing on this idea of the landscape and stuff which changesto reflect the mood and attitude of its observer, which I we that's Calesaprojets all about canton. This is yet landscape that is determined by theObserver. However, in her essay on the witches from the guilty of literaturecollection, Karen Saya considers the mally country a reflection of thenotion that nature comes from culture and that any landscape we pass, though,is overlaid with socially constructed ways of seeing which shape ourexperience. I guess yeah. This is one of those things where it's like it'sthere, but I don't know if that's what he was saying right, the idea, becauseit's the same where Agnes has to she can't cross a Perdida Ken Yeah. So Ithink this is about like self belief rather than major culture. You're right,I'm thinking of the time I was stranded for a Ni Lavarand. How I hit was terrified, but it probablywasn't. You know I was projected both me and culturally. You know yeah, soyou don't. I want to say I mostly wanted to bring that up to so we coulddo a Damani rating of Udolpho, but I we actually unlocked something it methodand when people ask what my methodology is, I'm like well, men else is we'regoing to read it through it. In bunny, voices will see what happens yeah. Okay,so that's just some stray observations and things our last thing before we geton to vampires and something going at be a bit more take a lot more technicalis. I want us to look at this idea of modernization and progress, so in He'stwenty fourteen book, fantasy politics and Persona denty Andrew Rayman, whowe've brought up a few times previously on the podcast uses carpentum toillustrate fantasies capacity to present theoretical conceptualizationin a purified state, exploring the novels attempt to record quilt ideology,ideological space with the master signifier, all right, wow quote simplymeans to establish itself as the dominant or default interpretation. SoI'm not sure of quote. I didn't like read his part where he defines quad. Iworked it out from the context, but, like I guess this is like blanketing atits mothers. It it collapses and I'm not really sure the dominant thing. Yes,so Raymond gives the example of liberalism as an uncut signifier rightwithout context, the ideology of being a liberal is mbius right. You could bea social liberal, be an economically Rowan, Australia right, you could be apolitical, liberal yeah, but so yes, so relies on the context around it. Totell you what that ideology is just saying, I'm a liberal is meaningless,so to become a master. signifier is to become the default interpretation right,quilting or fixing the ideological field of meaning right. So just likewhat is the dominant definition that wins out, and this is why this is why Ibrought up before- and you said, there's all the different variations ofthe Magione, a right so to quit. The Magpie Rhyme were to say this is themagpie ride. This is the definitive version of all the other ones are andagainst that's how superstition works is like it yeah they're, trying to quitsomething. Sorry, a lot of technical language for what is a rather clearconcept when you just explain it so in carpet. Oglan Raymond says the floatingsignifier that is up for grabs is the heavily loaded term progress with both berens and the Magpie,seeking to break with a stupid and superstitious pass and drag theirrespective communities into the year of the Fruit Bahat. The noise I made whenreading this to a a tents, he compares the cultural conditioningof the magpie children with Verete, similarly trying to condition hisdaughter by a modern parenting techniques right. One of my favoritebit bits is when they're talking about how Beric has been trying to improvethings and that everyone shouts and it's like yeah great cool, yeah andthen just goes about doing it. The same way, it's very funny longer doesn'tchange no right and the idea of modernization is something that'sintrinsically intertwined with the vampire genre, since at least Dracularight, it's probably present earlier, but drake is the one that really goesnow. This is old versus New Year esses, as a writer observes in his article onrecular and reverse CONIZA ION, while gothic novels had traditionallydisplaced their set time or la car later gothic writers, such as to gorout their action firmly in the mone world playing off tensions between thenew and the old world. I and in de...

Dreco, was praised by reviewers for itsup to dateness is right, yeah, it seems silly now, but itscentral O is Victorian, monism and enlightment thinking being threatenedby old world supernatural savagery. I see and the gothic being a digate yetwhich is ultimately defeated by on Van Helsing, one scientific methodologyright. He goes and researches vampires comes back and goes. He is what we knowfrom reading all the Vampiric Ion, which is what Pratchett is subvertingin Carper Jugglin, because fat housing is somehow able to go research happersand come back with a a careen vision of them, which there probably was at thatpoint, whereas after Dracula, it's splinteredinto so many different interpretations that you now can't apply thismethodology and ye on top of this research stuff. They also the way theyfind him is they go about it systematically tracking down hisaddresses and relish and cornering him? It's INARI, it's yeah, it's resin yeah.Yes, it's epiricus M for a surceasing. Again we have playing off a coon yeah.Conversely, as a brother observes, Dracula's physical mastery of hisBritish strictes also begins with an intellectual appropriation of theirculture, which allows me to dull the workings of the native mind right. Sowhen Harker first gets to CASTLEREA, he observes draculas expertise in life andcustoms of manners, and hackers, like was the ISREALITES. How E plans in the British aciesDirectress Jack is also saying, reading an EnglishBradshaw's guide, which is train time tables, which both the Harkers Jonathande Mina, also obsessed with, which is foreshadowing in that they trackregulation through the trim tables eventually. But it's also a single ofmodernization which Eneia an Orestians are the coming technology. Is Theparasite thinking also the paradigm shift at the end of the discol serieswith raising steam when trains get introduced to this world? So there'ssomething going on there as a runner observes starboa continually draws ourattention to the affinities between Harker and Jacula, as in the off sideof scene, where huge looks for Dracula's reflection in the mirror andsees only himself, which is something very obvious, but still makes me hear.Oh Nice also may be explained why the piesdon't have reflections because a relied of not thinking, but it's not as her asoften as you think. I don't really know why. It's it and I'm like ouses Hark agood look in. There seem self yeah. I think a lot of people do just read itas this old go. This me well thing, but it's like the old world is taking onthe new world, which is what's happening in Carpe Jagle right, yeah,yeah, the new, the new school vampires and Carpajo are actually acting. Whyatract Il Yeah Yeah cool, try thought yeah. It was cool right yeah. Similarly,as Rayment argies project, bines Varens in the magpies, together in language,through their similar references to progress and modernity, both referringto a coming new world order and changing times ignored by the sunlightof the dawning millennium in the Vampire's case and a glory that marksthe rising sun in Barancas, so that progress and Carpatia Raymer says isdevoid of any meaning. It is unfixed empty beyond that which is included toit through the frameworks of inferences and lighted progress or the vampire'sfascist progress, and that, although they seek similar goals, their methodsare very different vampires, forcing their changes upon their subjects,while Verot merely offers rigate is sort of project. Saying true andlightened progress is slow right. You are talking about how they like theidea that they don't do anything about it yeah, but we cannot resort to treatpeople like objects and things as granning would say. Otherwise you endup with escrow where people are treated. My vampires like cannot that's the ideathat you can only offer people things. You can't force it on that. You can'tmandate a vaccine and Lara. You know you couldn't yeah the only Iwas bitching about this Tolsi work walk earlier, but the only reference tosomething similar like this, like the vampire is voluntarily taking attackson the people actually comes in the two thousand and four film Van Housing,where their players only killed twice a month and Van heusen coming in andkilling the airplay upsets the balance. It brings revenge upon the town. So Imean that is an example of something that happens after Carpadon, so it'spossible that that scene was influenced by it. I'm not sure I for on either ofs from the Queen in an three shelter, the ones who walk away from Amos youfamiliar with this because yeah. Do you want to explainthat the story, the town when one feels pain and everything's awesome? And it'sbecause there's a child who's like kept in a Ka or something and fills the painfor everyone? No name is Alamos and everyone, a ton on his call right andthere's a kiddies on the pain and essentially everybody looking away.Everyone else was able to be paying free. What am I using? There's a been amissing: Are you missing the big where people walk away as the ideal Youtobin community, whereeveryone's happy but and there's no...

...mechanics to it right? It's completeAlegre, but the only way they're able to achieve this is if a single child ispermanently tortured and everyone knows this is happening, but if they don'tsay anything about it, everyone else keeps getting to be happy. So it's youknow the greater good utilitarian stuff right, grace good for the greatestnumber and yes, the one who walk away from on as the title story. Otherpeople who decide now. This is wrong. That's right! Yes, that's so of it yeah!It's very basic utopian, like you know, someone's you trek or someone else.It's Distorto sort of thing yeah reminded me of that where everyone inthis crow is like well everything's, fine, if we just sacrifice children tothe vampires once so on, threat, yeah but like maybe that is better the bagpipes coming in to murder andeveryone for me to the teria perspective. Maybe it's not one or theother, because there's granny weather axes, there's no grades! ONLY WHITE!That's Cott grubby right, but this is also the third or fourth example tothat weird white night story, but so I really do think this is a thing withPratchett. I think he's specifically referencing the story over and overagain it also recalls granny's debate with Miss Gogan, which is abroad. Ifyou remember, she told her, he can't make things right by magic. You canonly stop making them wrong where the kind of God mothers that gives peoplewhat they know. They really need, not what we think they ought to want.Umbrellas got to find out for yourself with no interference from anyone. Nomore stories, no more God, mothers, just people deciding for themselves forgood or bad fright or wrong. So to me, that's Verot's, going! He is sewagesystems, you can have them, but I'm not going to make you have them, whereasthe van is a don't get some so acciptin also means like we were talking aboutthe port treatment of Miss Cogan, which is a broad she's now the vampire andlike, although he there is a different context here- a because bore verycritical of granny saying this in that book, but that's because they weregoing into someone else's kingdom them and telling them how to run it, and sothere was an imperial colonization conduct here, whereas here granny istalking about hero kingdom, you we yeah. The other thing here is its freedom. IsThe uncoated actually mean yeah, there's a freedomfrom of freedom to yeah, which I'm sure we could go into that, but I don't wantto yeah, so I don't think proces going quite as far as openly engaging withLukanian theory and philosophy like Raymond suggests, but he's engagementin subtle themes. Here, I think, is far more deliberate than the class stuff. Iwas pushing a mastery. That was something I was reading into it, but Ithink practice someone on. Incidentally, I think here project probably isn'tthinking about quilting, but he is thinking about this. What do OgresseYeah Cool? So that is everything in this book that is not vampires. So I'mgoing to go away and write the second part of this podcast and we will beback to discuss the history of vampires as a literary type do live you Dolignan,we clear! That's all for this episode of UNSEEINGacademicals there'll be another one along in a month, but if you can't waituntil then you can sign up to our patronage and get all the episodes afull month in advance, along with any bernus episodes or specials that andI'm doing, if you're after more of us, Alice, horser and podcast of theDevil's Party, which traces the development of the atonic erathroughout romantic and Gothic literature thinks to a Bible. The feefor today show, along with the fully reference to foot. Not The transcriptshould be available in the episode description. Thanks for listening andstay change, some amusing attics get the fuck out of here. Go Kino. Ruseme on so matty.

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