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A Midsummer Night's Dream by Neil Gaiman (Preview)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Preview for our first ever bonus episode of Unseen Academicals, covering issue 19 of Neil Gaiman's comic series The Sandman: "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (1991). We compare Gaiman's treatment of Shakespeare's titular play to that of Pratchett's Lords and Ladies (1992), while examining the history of Shakespeare in comics and fairy illustration, the Faerie connections to the underworld, Faustian bargains, the history of Puck and his "reverse Pandora," Tolkien's opinions on fantasy and drama, as well as the origins of drag and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and more!

Unock the full episode at: https://www.patreon.com/doctorprometheuspod 

Episode Transcripts and Bibliographies: https://monash.academia.edu/JoshuaBulleid/Podcasts  

Contact: unseenacademicalspod@gmail.com  

Alice's other podcast, Of the Devil's Party: https://ofthedevilsparty.sounder.fm/

A Doctor Prometheus podcast. 

Hey, so you should remember that in anthe wasn't, ladies episodes, we mentioned, we were going to do a bonusepisode about the midsummer night stream issue of Nel Gaman Sam Man Comicseries. What you're about to hear is the first half an hour or so of thatthe whole episode is about two hours long. It's been up on the patron pageover a Picturam door, cometes part for a couple o weeks now, and if you wantto hear the rest of it, then you know what to do. I go over there and sign upand you can get this and you can also get we mentioned in this episode. Thatelse is intending on reading the rest of the same man series. So I suggested.Maybe we could catch up with her and see how she's feeling as she goesthrough it. So I literally just up what did the first part of that, which I'mcalling San Man Samatan in which we go through the first nine issues. Themaster of dreams are and see how Alice feels about those. You were from thispreview, which goes through some of the backgrounds about the same man seriesin the mid time in stream mate, as well as our feelings about neal gaming ingeneral, and a lot of discussion of his collaboration with terpreter on thenover good omens, which we will be doing a main Ansin academicals episode onafter we do the death books, which an exo once we finish up the witcherseries and do the death books we're going to do a couple of themiscellaneous and pre discat novels and in there I'm intending to do good omensas well. Although we have some reservations about gavins other work,we're both pretty positive about the same man. So if you want to read alongand revisit those or just hear what else, and I have to say about them- youcan go to the patron page and check out those again. That's Patrono, SDR,Prometheus pod, all spelled out so dear C to there should be a lick in thedescription anyway, and I realized that I think our newest patron Dan in thepreview for the Lords and leaders episode. That's now been replaced withthe full part to I'm sorry, I want to take a moment again to take Dan treesupport, unlike the other previews hove put up the four episode of this onewill not be hitting the public feed. You can only get this by going topatron. So if you want to be cool like Dan, you can go over there and sign up,and here the rest of this episode and all the other bonus material that weend up, putting up there as well as...

...getting away regular, viso well inadvance. Thanks again for your support- and I hope you enjoy the sure O- let'sget ready to puck o Tis SA, so I'm Josh and I'm Alice and where theunseen academicals wow. You got anything more than that. I just likeyeah, but I do that every week, so yeah yeah, let's probably a try all right-you go yeah, so this is going to be our first bonus. Patroon episode, you'regoing to be talking about issue, nineteen of neo game and Sam Man. Comicseries, which I am adamant, is not a graphic novel well good to that. Butyes is Sou ontamed the same man amid someone out stream from one thousandnine hundred and ninety wherein Shakespeare and his troop of actorsdebut the titular play before an audience of fairies in exchange fordreams. Inspiration, I'm going to put a tax on Ticula from this point out I'llfigure out what it is and I get back to you. I have started using a Ponamusmore because I did realize like it is just kind of sexist. I just hate theword. No, I just think it's funny. When you got like a you know, you woulddescribe what's her name Titania as the Tichel Fairy Queen, I'm like a then Imy go. It's the patriarchy yeah. I think it crept through well, so you getmore literation where the ponamus found. So yes, but first beyond this and laws,and, ladies being adaptations and revisions of bit someone that stream,you might be asking. Why are we talking about the old game and not TerryPratchett, because proche and Gamin they're, like literally literary book,Buddies, Yeah, good, good friends? All I can think now is other literary bestbuddies or who else we got? Who Are you? I'm thinking like Perso, apes, Aselliand Lo Byring got show your barn. Don't have the friends and and day fist whileis face, his buddy did the present yeah...

...but in's kind of later. Isn't it yeaher the buds? Okay, US WE THAT BOK BUDDIES? That's true! I think Philip K,Dick and Rogers Lasne we're pretty close. We so I got well now we I mean we have mentioned this beforethat game and and Pratchett we're part of the same sort of conference group offantasy writers and fans that would go to conferences together with MaryGentle who wrote the Orkborne, so that was the the lovecraft society orwhatever it was called yeah. So they were part of the same Conrat group andfrate was actually gamins. First interview in one thousand nine hundredand eighty five interviewed him about the color of magic and that's how theymet and they sort of hit it off of them and became friends from there andGamman begins his forward to practice. Two Thousand and fifty non fictioncollection, a slip of the keyboard by recalling a Texas convention handlerwho referred to Pratchett as a Jolly Old Elf, going on to tell of projetsdriving a driving angers, and he was driven by his anger and concluding theproject was not a jolly old Elfat, all not even close. He was so much morethan that. I will say that that's a good epithet if you're going to haveone- I mean this. This tells me that proches got sorry. Game is not reallyvibrant. With preaches take on the else, because precher would say else. Aren'tJolly and the Elf are driven by a drive in anger. So approached is quite Elf,esque, yeah, you're right M. Conversely, in his two thousand and two Books BookScorn Convention Address, I don't know if that's Hay said that some kind ofbook convention- Two Thousand and two bucks- are convention- Address Projectdescribed Gaman as neither a genius nor a wizard but a conjurer who heconsidered better than wizards and geniuses since conjurors work very hardand can't just wave their hands practise getting compared to elves isthat's sort of playing them. His thing, this is going to like the witches andwithers thing. Damons are real he's sort of like the witches who do thepractical magic yeah. I know how the spells work and work hard, rather thanjust being these wizards, who go quantum thought that was interestingthere. It's Pracchia conjurors like game and spend a lot of time in theiryouth, watching very carefully the best conjures of their day. They seek outold books of trickery and being natural conjures, read everything else as well,because history itself is just a magic...

...shure. I mean yes, but also come up.Well, I I pointed that out, because history itself, being a magic, showsort of ties into the themes of this comic as we're going to get to, butalso because I think, game and paid very close attention to what a projectwas doing and sort to reproduce it a lot of the time, even though this issue,which adapts him mid summer, night stream, does come out a year beforelords and ladies, so this is one of the occasions where game does actually preempt rather or at least beat him to the publisher. I assume they're writingthese books around the same time. They're probably hanging out talkingabout the same ideas, and then they go away and do them, because this is alsojust after they've collaborated on good omens, which we are going to do is partof the main show at some point. I think after the death series- Oh I nottalking about today. Okay, all right we're talking about it, so one Austrainnow we're gonna do a whole episode on that. It's gonna be a whole thing. Didyou have anything just like it? What we can do we got a little bit of a freevie yeah, I read it a while back and I was like I sort o didn't really like it,the first time I read it because to me it was sort of a the third like thissmall guards by prochein American gods by no game and then there's this andthey're all sort of playing with the same ideas, and I was sort of the thirdre Hash of the same ideas by the same authors. I wasn't really into it yeahrecently reread it this time after I went through and we read all prechesbooks and I've really liked it. It's way better than I remember that,there's a lot going on there yeah, I read it as a teenager loved to rereadit as like a twenty seven year old and was like. Oh, this is a rubbish andthen re read it again when the show came out- and I was like no actually,this is amazing, but by then I was so deep into dark hero stuff, so I had awhole new lease on it. Well, that's what I was also RIAs reading it goingAlice. This is Alice and have you seen the TV show, yet no,I saw a bit may watch it and I so duct in and out. I cannot stand a viertenant so interesting, but I will I will revisit it when we do come to doingthat. It's fun! It's not great! It's fun! I think. That's the thing! Thebook is fun to read when you translate it to a TV shirt, it's not whateverything everyone thinks it's going to be. I think everyone thinks it'sgoing to be a you know a direct translation. It will be always be justas good, but actually I think this...

...story works better as a book or isthere as some books that work better as a TV show like freaking normal people,man, it was only good as a TV show, never read the book anyway. Okay, yeahjust reread that the other week- and this leads us hit to her. Well, how dowe feel about gaming in general right because he's he's like a big deal inliterary studies like Contemporary Literary Studies, especially with thefantasy literal, like he's the guy, I'm so clearly we worship at the altar ofnew Gamin right. I don't know if worship is the right idea. I lance atit occasionally t appreciate that it's a nice altar and then I look at otherothers that are better and should be given more attention. I did see himlast year and got sucked in a little bit and then I was like in the flesh inthe flesh. I went to the bush fire concert organized by him and a man dePalmer and Miss Higgins was meant to be here there, but a god. I would probablylike that on fire. If I was there shit, it was fine, but I did yeah. I don'tknow. I had a weird feeling alti my feelings about the old game andshouldn't come as a shock, because I've made some passive, aggressivecommencent on the regular podcast, but I'm sure if I meant no game in in reallife, he's a really nice dude who like- and I would never say anything mean tohim- and I only say these throw away jabs at him, because he is such a bigdeal right. It's like I'm being overly dramatic, and I can't I kind of clasticabout it where it's I'm told he's so amazing. So I do want to drag him downa peg because I don't think he's as good as everyone says he's. In fact Idon't think Nel Gamin is a very good writer and that's what I've noticedwe're doing the same anise. I reread the whole Saman series. I Rear GoodOmens, I'm on a bit of a revisiting new gaming kick and I am liking up morethis second time around. But what I am coming to is, I don't think, he's agood writer. I think, he's an ideas. Man, I think also a lot of his appealis in his him as a person, because he is such a figure in the world where, asother authors are not but an everyone loves Neil. So then, being like theidea a of the work, he is the one who said you know. Ideally you three thingsyou're on time: You're, good and you're nice, but you can a get away with anytwo of those, and I think he...

...he does that. You know he's on time andhe's nice yeah and he's got good ideas. Maybe I m when a say ideas likepremises. New gamins prices are great, but what I find with almost all hisbooks are they're good for the first half and he does not know how to finishthe story. Did you find that with good urbans, good omens, I think, ended.Well, though, I just assumed, as I was going through it, every bit I enjoyedwas written by Pratchett and every bid I did was written by not gaming, andthat is a little bit of a predis thing, but I have done a little bit ofresearch trying to work out who wrote what and from what I can tell. It ismajority written by Prache, wow, there's conflicting arguments, and Icannot find anything to for new. What I can work out is new. Again I had theidea for the book and started writing it and just couldn't work. It out wentto Pratchett and said I've got this idea for a book, but I'm not anywhereperhaps said well. Why and we write it together and at the time they wereexperimenting with writing like with computers and online with the earlyInternet. They were like what, if we do, an experiment where we write a book ofme, email it back and forth, and then that is right in the middle of whenprached, so Gamin is starting to write the same man. The same a takes on sameman becomes huge, as I discuss soon so Nelga and got caught up in that gotbusy with that and perch went okay well, you're too busy I'll just take it fromhere, and he writes most of it and from what I've read is he wrote pretty muchall of it, except for the bits with the four horsemen that was sort of game andstuff, but project read all the stuff with the witches and the kids. I'm sure,there's like bits of Burton the birds read each others, but that is what I'vebeen told and will come back to this more thoroughly when we do cover it forthe thing, but the bits I didn't really like going back to it with bits withthe new horseman. That's going to be my one thing I don't like when we getthere, it get them out of the book. They had nothing. Okay, whereas I foundout the stuff with the kids in the witches very good, but it also it was alot more bounty. It was a lot more funny. It had a distictly sort ofPrachi, stale, jokes and quality to it. So I thought it was. You could tellwhen precept was writing. I thought, but that's all about a book that we'lldo in another six months, what about Mer, gamins other stuff at allvoraciously as a teenager and have never gone back some of my memories onthe Ma Murky. I think I re read...

American gods a few years ago, and thenthey got about half way through it yeah. I think my main beef with no Gavin iswith American gods, because that's the book that everyone holds up yeah, it'sa rehash of to Prache and small guards and good omens, and I love the ideas inthe same man. It's not particularly original. He does the thing where youget to the end and none of it mattered and it just gets DASS macatawa, whichis how all of Gamman's books end, including the same and and several artswithin the same man. Although I think, as the same the same man is great. I'veliterally just reread the whole thing. The same man is better than everyonesays it is, and everyone says it's the best thing: it's phenomenal okay, buthe just has problems with ending stories. He writes himself into thesereally interesting corners and then just clears the deck. I noticed that insome of just the issues, and then they just start US- oh well, get ready forit. Yeah and the same man is playing with more of this thematic thing, it'smore about catter and thine development than they plot things, but then you getinto something like American gods, and it's just like. Why did I read thesehundred pages if, at the end of the tally, resets history, yeah and a NancyBoys, which is the sequel, I think, is one of the worst books I've ever read?I did hate that, even as a teenager yeah there are, there are some mealgame and stuff. I do like. I sat the end of the lake or shot the end oflanes, one I really like, because it has an ending that ties together.Authomatics ly, the other one of his that I real, like is never were, Ithink, never wears is great. Never Wers, good, yeah and I'll lead good omens tothat. Now, after re reading, the graveyard book, which is more a kitsbook like that was that was fun as a kid. You know they are meant for youngpeople and I mean- and we can't put up with them. I think yeah I mean I justre, read: Caroline because I'm having to teach it to a high school studentand yeah, not it makes hatch a fat about caroline, it's just a spooky.Lady Right. This is the thing ever makes. Is such a fuss about Americangods and Caroline it's like, and I don't think they're terrible like I getwhen people are reading, but it's just like they're, not the best thing everand that's where my resentment towards new gaman comes from yeah. He gets a ofdispraise and some of it haps not desert yeah, but I do think all thesebooks, with maybe the exception of a...

Antibo they're worth reading, there'sinteresting stuff in them. There's interesting ideas. I just yeah, I don'tthink he's a good novelist. I mean my main be with American God that I meanyou know this is the the main characters called shadow moon like thatis something you would get laughed out of an amateur writing class for if youcame in and said, then shadow mood walked across the room. You would gettold immediately like change your protagenes lutely. You would the otherthing that still shits me about that is like when his wife dies or whatevershe's, sucking someone's Dick and like bites the penis off and dies with it.An Omen. I'm like come on I'll. Do a American God yeah do we need that? Imean. Maybe I've picked it up from the shot. It Sartin the original book, butI remember being a bold, so I don't think that's in the book that does seemlike something which I watch. The first couple. Episodes of the show went no soyeah, that's how our general vives on gaming, not our favorite, no, not ourfavorite, not my least favorite, but someone. I do have a grudging thingagainst, but also one of the things I really like is the same man, and Ireally like this mad some an ice stream issue. I think it's really great, butno gaming comes from comics. This is like we say he's. Not a writer likeAmerican gods is essentially his first novel twenty years into his career,because before that he has the comic stuff, which is all collaborative. Hehas good omens, which is co, writing with Terry Prache, and maybe projectrot most of it, and then you have never wear, which was based on a series thathe wrote with Lenny Henry, which is really fucking weird, and then henovelized this series and then he's doing comics all through the nineties.So it's all this calabrie stuff and then caroline and American guards arelike his first actual novels and bat point is such a big name that he's sortof almost too big to fail. Yeah T on this. By the way when I saw him at thebush fire benefit thing. He read some stories and they were nice stories, butthey were just like premises. They didn't have endings, they were likeyeah. They were just ideas that were interesting. So just to reiterate yourpoint from before yeah. That's who I found that with all his year shortstories as well, I find, but they don't know it well, and the good bits inAmerican gullets are all the little. What are the words so er the vignettesabout the other gods that in actually...

...part of the plot, but it's just like.Oh here's, the African sex goddess eating a guy with a Vergina and it'slike that's a cool scene, but it doesn't have to go anywhere becauseit's just this thing and then there's a lot of stuff like that in the same manas well as reading the same amount like Oh, this is, you were just redoingAmerican gods. You took those ideas and in what about in America, but yeah gameand makes his name in Comix, I'm not too sure the details, but I think he ishe's like the prodigy of Ala more who is the big guy. He rewrites fifervendetta and watchman, and then one thing and everything revolutionizescomics and then Gamein sort of a protege of him in comes in Rit BlackOrchard, which is a DC superhero. It takes in kind of a weird dark, fansyMerd, which I'm half way through reading that at the moment, and thendoes the same man which we're talking about now and then then blows up yeahin the same book convention address where Preche Describes Him as a contra.Our project says the effect of game and work on the comic world was akin tothat of token on the fantasy novel and that everything afterwards was in someway influenced and well. I do think that's true. I think the comparison totalking is also entirely misleading and accurate Jack Kervey, who created the Xmen, the fantastic for the hulk iron man for Loki Captain America at and thewasp the winter soldier, Black Panther, the sulfurea Nick Fury, the SCART,which vision and grout among others, is the token of the fantasy world rightyeah agree. He also creates devil dinosaur and Dr Druid, so you know theyweren't all its, but I am came to get a copy of devil dinosaur and see what allthat's about. Oh- and I still haven't, finished- that going off about JackKirby aparently, because he also embedded literary and mythologicalfigures of like Loki right, including Lucifer and doctor Faustus and Erborninto the Marvel Universe, not the DC universe, which is where Sam man is sone. Gamins versions of loosfer and Oberon are not these same ones, buteven that Jack have we already did it in the Marble universe. Already,Jackety also created one, thus nd s version of the same man for C whobecomes a major character in one of the same man. Arks of no games. Think sorry,yeah he's the talking. Although there's a quote on wikipedia about Jack Amy,the Cortigan Article, which calls Jack...

Kirby, the William Blake of comics,thus thought t was weird. I don't really get it. I think I might havesomething for this. Okay, yeah, I mean the reason William was I mean a he wasinsane, but the reason I like you know is is whenever I teach it the studentslike, I didn't really like the poetry, all the drawings there and it's like.No, no, no, that's not the point. The point is he revolutionized this new wayof merging poetry and art together using like chemicals, and this strangeprocess like put a a chemical page and then engraved it and then like sent itall up to no drawing by Blake is never the same and now, and that means nopoem, is ever really the same, because the image changes, the meaning of thepoem certain things are darker or bigger, or changed and, like you cansay that doesn't matter, but also it does for some of them. The Way Blake istrying to write. So I don't know if there's anything there about you knowrevolutionizing the way that we experience or respond to or engage withthese art forms. Does that give you something yeah I mean that's. Thatsounds interesting, but it also sounds more like a game and Saman kind ofthing manage everything, Jacoby you're saying he's like the token, so hechanged the way we engage with them. He made it well, it's more that he just heset the standard of like these are the architects. This is how you dosuperhero comics and then everything is a response and anything that deviatesfrom it is sort of positioned in response to it like this is an antisuperhero comic, but I guess what with the talking person is like taken,establish the archetypes he was like this is. What else are this is whatdwarves are. This is what Homiah he gave the language of it and said thisis what it all looks like and then everyone else who's going and writingall these post talking his fansies playing around with his tool box, whichI feels like what curviture went. This is what superheroes are these. This iswho the Superos ar this is, what superheroes do and then superherocomics are just reiterating on the kibe MoD, whereas, like Blake doesn't reallydo that, he doesn't create like a mythology or an archite. He does createan entire mythology. Actually now I think about it, so it kind of works.It's just not incredibly influential like it doesn't. The Byron doesn't thentake them mythology, but I mean everyone's obsessed for trying tounderstand. Like mythology, and my...

...theory is, he was actually insane andyou're never going to get there like this man stood on the streets ofLondon staring at a tree, going, there are angels in it, and ever I went ayeah but he's right. Well. Speaking of in saying, I would argue that game ismarking to being the Michael Moorcock of comic in that he ushered in a darker,more artistic new wave, O Michael, more cock. I know the name in after Ole whatI mean if you're doing dark hers, you got to know macomo Cock because he doeselric Ian no okay. I know yes. Yes, he is also the author of New Worlds, whichis the science ficton magazine in the new way I n than S, and seventy so he'slike as science fiction fantasy is changing into this new wave MoD he'ssort of directing it so I'd. Actually, I the God, you rather than Gaman he iscloser to what's his name Allan more. We mentions that the watchman as onething leaving trony gentleman guy. This is the connection to wake being insane,because Alan more thinks he's a literal wizard. I know yeah sure he's Maemo. Idon't know who game it is exactly he's got some Philip K, dicis qualities butDick's earlier. Maybe there isn't a real analogy, because these are allpeople who have their individual lives and history doesn't work out like that.Percy shelley kind of figure, like posy Shelley, was experimenting with ideas,but he really struggled to like finish stuff off and, like finish off, hestart like tin. Thinking, for me he's on bound that's what meant to be hisMaster Pas an x ray in for a track. That's true! He does the wife away yeah.Well, I mean now you just he's barn right. He S in other jacket, Biron yeahyeah, who the cult of celebrity is bigger than he is actually yeah. Okay,so he's barring also Michael Morco, rot a novel that I have read, but I willthat is called Glory Ana, which I sent your link for, but by the sense of youraction you do not look at it. I think I have no memory this thing as so gorionas I again I haven't read, it is a novelization of a Bako from the ferryqueen. Now I remember this link right and apparently won the other worldfantasy war award and things. So I will read that and report back at some point.Okay, but unnecessary. Analogies aside...

...game and Saman is one of the mostinfluential comics in the medium's history. Probably I was going to saythe for modern comics. Definitely again, I don't think you can say like JackKirby and the x men and stuff, like is less influential, but as far as comicsbecoming this serious literary, medium sand. Man is ground. Zero and MIDSOMERSTREAM IS I've written perhaps there, but is its most influential issue, soit won the world fantasy, shot story award in one thousand nine hundred andninety one, which is the only comic ever to do so since it's rumor, theychange the rules afterwards to rule out your graphic novels from beingnominated for the literary word and at a bullit. Well, they didn't. I wasreading somewhere today. I tually that they didn't change the rules. They justcame out and clarified and said no comics were never meant to be nominatedfor this, but either way they let it slip through it wine and they saidnever again. So it was the first Kinoo to win the world fantasy short storyaward and will be the final one to do so because, apparently they said well,comic books are Alogia and other category, but no comic books have everbeen nominated for that category. That so there is a genre prejudice going onther, absolutely in the script for the issue, which I cannot get somethingelse this before the thing. But apparently there is a copy of thescript in the dalak absolute sand. Man addition a copy of the script for themidsummer night stream assure which I really wanted to get for this podcast.But I've been going back and forth for over a month now with the libry peoplewho are telling me it doesn't exist. So if anyone out there has the absoluteseman has a copy of this script because we're a lock down right now, I can justgo out to a book store and try and find it, and also these absolute Sammancollections are like a hundred dollars. If anyone has that, can email meconfirm it exists, maybe so me a copy, we could maybe had no dendo orsomething in later, because I would really like to check that out. That'sunseen academic as Pod at Gmail, but apparently in the script. This is thesecond hand quotation. I'm here Gaman says to the hornist childs bes. He saysthis is a really fascinating comic to ride. I mean either it a work reallywell or it'll, be a major SAR stuff, not just a disaster. I mean people willtalk about this in the list of great interesting failures, failures forever,but see things like cor. You call the hoke versus the thing and the D pop upgraphic novel with Free Song Book and...

...interesting failure. You should havebeen there when game and and best made idiots of themselves on Sammon or, likeI say it, may work it's a million to one shot, but it just might work and Ibring that up because, as discov readers we know the million to oneshots turn up nine times out of ten. So really this was a safe bet. They weregoing for here and obviously turned out really well for them became the biggestcritically a can comic of all time. I think we need to read all other getgaming quotes out and gamins voice from here on out as well go for it. I bitlike this is a really fascinating comic to rite, like he really annunciate andgets his tongue around all the words I yeah. Now he does because I've listenedto a couple of audio books. He does a lot of the audio books for us or bookand there's actually an audio adaptation of the same man that theydid like the first art up to this. This was the last issue they did and they'remaking parts. Three two and three at the moment. Yeah he's the narrator onthat as well. So he does have that very clicky tongue sort of soft. Where islike here where we go, I mean people will talk about this in the list ofgreat interesting failures forever. Yes, that weird cadets were Yo've, got himyeah breaks yeah, but yes, Neil Gamon and Charles ves hasbeen some on right stream is the most critically celebrated comic issue everwritten, but what do we think about it? Ellis in honor of the Rupas? Drag race?Recap podcast. Could I get you to man, two things you like about the issue,and one thing you did not. Please say this bet didn't prepare break the wrong, but the other likeokay. No, I could do it on this spot. I like the art. Is that aloud yeah? Ireally like the A and I don't know man I just I get really off on seeingShakespeare represented as a literary character in other works as actualShakespeare, so that was fun, and- and here we go, I'm going to break the useagain. I like the fact that they do midsummer cream and it's all matter andfun. Like I geths three things you'd like yeah, nothing, you didn't like Nangis, pretty good right. Take it yeahyou've got six things, you didn't like it! No, no! No! I like this and we'llget into the things I like to didn't...

...like, but I do have to ask I've rereadthe same anser as twice I've read it. I've read this issue a couple of times.This is your first time and you've read San Manda Yeah. I've done the samething as people from comic fans from ages passed them, which is try and getallison to comics by giving her a copy of nail gamins amid some on nightstream and tell her to read the same man. That's that's what everyone doesso do you? Do you read comics in general, I did as a teenager and I havenever done since broke. I mean I got. I wouldn't say I became prejudice. I justwas I going to read the real books. Now I'm going to be a literary studies,person, and now I am back to the second Gilling, because you've started readingthe actual Saman series have yeah. I read the first one. Last night after Iread Kalliope Yeah Cool as you go through at I mean. Maybe we couldrevisit this and we could do a little bonus catch up with Elsa. She goesthrough the series after every major arc, not in like this much detail withresearch and everything just we chat. I say how did you feel about this becauseI think there's some interesting stuff there, a lot of Satan Stan there?That's why I'm doing it fast things yeah, so I think it'd be interesting tocatch up with you actually go through. I think it's. The first eight issues isthe first ark up to when death is introduced. So when you get to the carkwith death- and it hit me up and we'll jump back in and maybe we can just putthose out as you go through and maybe you'll lose interest, but we'll do it.Why are you still maintain it? As for me, two things I like, I love theMeditatur l layers of this, which is obviously just what it's doing, but Ithink it does it really well that you've got the play within the playerwithin the play within the play, and then the comic is a Meta Comin on playsand all of that, and as he says in that corner, just read it Al. It could havebeen an absolute protentous disaster and I think he absolutely nails it likeweird sisters like how Weird Sisters, we think is it A. I don't think it's adisaster. I just think it's kind of bland yeah. Now this is definitely moreyou engage than than weirds yeah. I don't like this as much as lords andladies, but it's closer to that than wid sisters. The other thing I like ispuck monologue, the treatment of putlog and all the implications which buildsoff the metafiction things. We're going to talk a lot about that as we go, butthat scene in particular, is left a...

...pretty big impression on me in general.I think going back to what I was like. I didn't realize how much that hadreally carried through into the way. I look at literature and things so we'lltalk a bit more about that as we Gar the one thing I just like, I'm like you,I was struggling to find something and I've settled on. I think some of thehamlet stuff is the hamlet stuff is a bit heavy handed okay, which is sort ofcountry, because I've got the full quote in here somewhere, but Gaman sayshe submitted this this issue to his editor, the script for it and normallyhe said he doesn't get much free back normal. They just go to the and they go.You have great prove it Sendeth Ugh to the artes, and this was one of the fewtimes they sent it back and said change something about it. He's editor KarenBurger inspired the hamlet twist after she criticized the first draft of theissue for lacking a human center of any kind and being of interest only toShakespeare's calls, which is why we were into it without it now hot for US yeah. So he kind he leftalmost everything in the script exactly the same, except for the addition ofthe six panels that reveal Shakespeare's career from hamletsperspective, and that theme is Great and we will talk about that, but Ithink, having hamnet stare into the camera and explain the moral of theissue when it was implied already. I do think that is a bit heavy handed wheneverything else is so new Onstan so perfect. So is it just because he hadto add at last minute and he was like to wonder he thinks that's great. Hethinks that was the best advice I ever got, because without that this comicwouldn't work. For me, that's the bit where I go, it's sort of a bit clunky.I think it's fine. I don't think a ruins the comic. I just don't thinkit's as deft as everything like everything else is so implicit, andthen that is literally explaining on that. Actually interesting. You bringit up that fro this up before, but an upstart crow. It ends with hamlet todeath and it's far too heavy end. It just can destroys the show, because itjust goes from this light. Hearted funny comedy with all this meter stuffto tragedy- and it's like, Oh God, so yeah they are Patten yeah. So, giventhat we've been talking about the same masters, we should probably explainwhat the same man series is, and I for those who don't know the Salmon, is acomic series by Nell Gamin. It's about the dream, God Morpheus, he has lots ofnames. MORPHIC is sort of the main one...

...he's referred to. So that's what I'mgoing to call him it's about the dream guard morphus, who is one of the sevenendless, along with death, destiny, delirium desire to spare and the lastone which is a bit of a spoiler. So I won't name them as Alice is goingthrough it, but morphus is also considered the prince of stories. Sothere's a lot of mediation, AL stuff, going on in references to other writers,including Shakespeare, obviously, who first appears in the same man as astruggling playwright in issue, thirteen, which is called the men agood fortune. You've read this one as well yeah can I say, like I mean Ienjoyed it, Midilie and I get it all, but I was really there for men of goodfortune. If you're tried to sell me on the series with someone right three.Actually it was the man of good fortune. I was like a man, okay, yeah, do youwant to explain what what men are good fortune is yeah? Okay, so man of goodfortune is about a man. WHO's like death isn't real. So I'm trying toremember is a few weeks ago. You want me to do it yeah you do it please soreally good fortune, and these are this and met some one. Istriot stand a loanissues. You could start with these two and most people sort of do because thisis the same point yeah so dream. Is this endless dream God? So he, althoughthe main Samman series, is set in Contemporary Times in one thousand ninehundred and eighty n s when it's been written there. All these flash backissues essentially dream and I must have been around a.

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